Cyber Etiquette, Please Read

Bill Sohne · May 30, 2018

Hi everyone....

I am not looking to swing it 180 degrees to be "PC" ...

Keep in mind the forum is changing , as one of my old boss use to say to me " Change is good , Change is your friend...dont be scared of it"..

Things are changing here... and some of the things I do not care for is the almost at the drop of the hat... going on the personal attack...

discussions and arguments are fine within reason and being civil. Sometimes people forget... and we need a gentle reminder who we are and how do we be our best "we"....

I dont think it is a soft thing... but just trying to be reasonable.

Best

Bill

STANDY · May 30, 2018

Read the title
Thought there would be bullying 👎

😁

Bill Sohne · May 30, 2018

Hi Dennis

I would also ad a intro stating... You can also try Google search and the Omega Forums search tool as well in help answering your questions before you post your question to the forum...

Good work squirrel!

and then if the new user with total disregard to all the above and below warnings.... still goes and post ... Well then they won a personal response from THE FAQ ambassador with additional clues.....

Good Hunting

Bill

U ulackfocus
Probably a lot like the instructions already posted here:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/vintage-omega-posting-guide.383/

Particularly this one:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/for-the-new-members-read.23288/

.... where Mike says:

"Do not abuse the privilege of membership here – ask because you are curious and enjoy the fellowship and not because you want to make a quick buck. Do some of the research first. Post good photos. And once you learn something, give something back in return."

Which boils down to my much more direct and less tactful "do your own damn homework because we aren't your lackeys."

Bill Sohne · May 30, 2018

STANDY
Read the title
Thought there would be bullying 👎

😁

Well it seems its more like people are on the "cyber -meanness" spectrum .....

Bill

michael22 · May 30, 2018

I just say what I think. Sometimes I decide not to say it.

But mostly I look at this issue from the opposite angle: some things sound harsh, but aren't meant that way. Or they may be meant harshly, but are still helpful. So I resolve to have a thick skin & look for the good in a post. I hope others do the same for me.

gatorcpa · May 30, 2018

michael22
But mostly I look at this issue from the opposite angle: some things sound harsh, but aren't meant that way.

The problem with that logic is that emotional speech like humor and sarcasm do not translate into two dimensional writing very well. Let’s face it, there are no Mark Twains here.

Add in the fact that English is a second or third language to a decent percentage of the people on this forum, and you can understand why there is so much misunderstanding.

Dennis had a really good idea with his “[sarcasm]” faux font.
gatorcpa

michael22 · May 30, 2018

I was simply stating what I do, not suggesting it is worth emulating.
However, I do think everyone on the internet needs a thick skin, & that would solve a lot of consternation.

oddboy · May 30, 2018

Flaming newbies for not reading stickies and FAQs is not unique to OF. It happens at just about every forum I'm ever frequented. It also doesn't hurt to lurk for a while and get to know the tone of the forum, not to mention pick up on the personalities of the regulars.

Much could be avoided if more new members here did that.

And to be fair, there are plenty of new people that show up and just fit right in.

I have seen some harsh welcomes here, but those are tame compared to say the BSD forums. Go post a dumb question on FreeNAS and see what that gets you.

Anyway, in general, I agree. It's pretty simple. Treat others the way you'd like to be treated. Works mostly. Add to that "don't be a jerk (all the time)" and you have some pretty good guidelines for a happy life.

ulackfocus · May 30, 2018

Bill, the tone of the forum has been set for years and probably won't change. How much I'm to blame for it is debatable, but I have wide shoulders (literally! It's a p.i.t.a. to buy shirts!) so I'll take the brunt of the "blame". Frankly, nobody here wants to sit in a virtual circle, with a member like efauser strumming a virtual guitar, singing kumbaya to an ungrateful n00b like we're a bunch of baked hippies. A n00b gets what amounts to a verbal smack upside the head for doing something stupid (i.e. not reading the stickies) and they usually immediately shape up or ship out. If they give us some grief back, all the better because then we know they paid attention. If they never return, then let them go get harassed on another forum (which they will because this behaviour happens everywhere). Either way is usually fine with us, because a large percentage are just using us to do their work / research for them - and usually so they can sell their grandfather's / father's / uncle's vintage watch. I believe we're doing them a favor with the abrupt treatment: give a n00b a fish, he will eat for a day; teach a n00b to fish, he eats for a lifetime. Sometimes people absolutely need some tough love to wake up. True adults don't need to be handled with kid gloves.

STANDY
Read the title
Thought there would be bullying 👎

😁

Yeah, really! It's false advertising!!!!! I want to see some cyber-bullying too, gawdammit. 😜

efauser · May 30, 2018

U ulackfocus
Bill, the tone of the forum has been set for years and probably won't change. How much I'm to blame for it is debatable, but I have wide shoulders (literally! It's a p.i.t.a. to buy shirts!) so I'll take the brunt of the "blame". Frankly, nobody here wants to sit in a virtual circle, with a member like efauser strumming a virtual guitar, singing kumbaya to an ungrateful n00b like we're a bunch of baked hippies. A n00b gets what amounts to a verbal smack upside the head for doing something stupid (i.e. not reading the stickies) and they usually immediately shape up or ship out. If they give us some grief back, all the better because then we know they paid attention. If they never return, then let them go get harassed on another forum (which they will because this behaviour happens everywhere). Either way is usually fine with us, because a large percentage are just using us to do their work / research for them - and usually so they can sell their grandfather's / father's / uncle's vintage watch. I believe we're doing them a favor with the abrupt treatment: give a n00b a fish, he will eat for a day; teach a n00b to fish, he eats for a lifetime. Sometimes people absolutely need some tough love to wake up. True adults don't need to be handled with kid gloves.

Yeah, really! It's false advertising!!!!! I want to see some cyber-bullying too, gawdammit. 😜

BenBagbag · May 30, 2018

oddboy
Flaming newbies for not reading stickies and FAQs is not unique to OF.

In the world of User Interface (how humans/computers effectively and efficiently interact) I think an assumption is that if you don't make it extremely easy for people to access something they won't be able to. How do you know if it is easy? The less inundated you become with the behaviors you are trying to avoid - the more successful your platform is. 😁

The stickied posts, which are often pointed out (sometimes harshly) in a first response to a newcomer, may be glossed over simply because there are 13 of them and (arguably) the two most important ones for new members: "For the new members: read" and "Vintage Omega Posting Guide" are 10 and 13th on the list (of 13 total stickies) as of this post (I love @ConElPueblo's Learn how to fish too!). Can we hold each user accountable for not having noticed and read those stickies when they are sandwiched between "full list of omega calibers" and "Omega extract of the archives"? Is it any wonder why they get glossed over?

When you download a new app with a new interface it almost invariably starts with a short tutorial about how to navigate the app/website. If every time a member joined a series of screens walk you through decorum and other critical threads then I would feel comfortable holding a newcomer more accountable for ignoring those guidelines. (I'm not suggesting we change the platform design, I assume that would be a lot of work for the mods. My point is to see things from the newcomer's perspective.)

Again, this is from a U/I perspective.

😀

ulackfocus · May 30, 2018

BenBagbag
The stickied posts, which are often pointed out (sometimes harshly) in a first response to a newcomer, may be glossed over simply because there are 13 of them and (arguably) the two most important ones for new members: "For the new members: read" and "Vintage Omega Posting Guide" are 10 and 13th on the list (of 13 total stickies)..... Is it any wonder why they get glossed over?

Good point, and one that's been discussed, albeit briefly, before. I'd love to see an abridged version of the two added to the registration page, sort of like a User Agreement* that you have to check off as read before being allowed to join.

*which we all know that nobody reads anyway. 🤦 😜

efauser · May 30, 2018

U ulackfocus
*which we all know that nobody reads anyway. 🤦 😜

True, but that really makes them fair game when it becomes apparent that they didn't..

oddboy · May 30, 2018

Fair point, but also a cultural point...and by that, I mean Internet culture. Ive been on the internets for about 25 years and this has always been the expectation - that new users seek out stickies .search older threads, hang out and get to know the vibe of the forum - before joining in. Sure, things on the internetz have changed in that 25 years, but forum culture hasn't really.

What do you do when you show up at a new job, a new neighbourhood, a new country?

...and yes, I agree that stickies could be made more obvious, but newbies bear some responsibility to understand the norms.

Bill Sohne · May 30, 2018

U ulackfocus
Bill, the tone of the forum has been set for years and probably won't change. How much I'm to blame for it is debatable, but I have wide shoulders (literally! It's a p.i.t.a. to buy shirts!) so I'll take the brunt of the "blame". Frankly, nobody here wants to sit in a virtual circle, with a member like efauser strumming a virtual guitar, singing kumbaya to an ungrateful n00b like we're a bunch of baked hippies. A n00b gets what amounts to a verbal smack upside the head for doing something stupid (i.e. not reading the stickies) and they usually immediately shape up or ship out. If they give us some grief back, all the better because then we know they paid attention. If they never return, then let them go get harassed on another forum (which they will because this behaviour happens everywhere). Either way is usually fine with us, because a large percentage are just using us to do their work / research for them - and usually so they can sell their grandfather's / father's / uncle's vintage watch. I believe we're doing them a favor with the abrupt treatment: give a n00b a fish, he will eat for a day; teach a n00b to fish, he eats for a lifetime. Sometimes people absolutely need some tough love to wake up. True adults don't need to be handled with kid gloves.

Yeah, really! It's false advertising!!!!! I want to see some cyber-bullying too, gawdammit. 😜

Hi everyone....

To be serious for a moment... The purpose of the thread is Not about how we smack down a newbee. , a FAQ .. Or the tone of the forum. I am not blaming anyone for what this place is or is not...

The intent of my post is about personal attacks and dog piles etc and to keep in the back of the of everyone mind when is enough enough...
and I dont blame Dennis.... even with a 50 jacket size? ( that is USA sizing )

--- Now back to

"Toro Toro" as i wave the red cape in front of you.....

Good Hunting..

Bill

cimo · May 30, 2018

For what it's worth, when addressing the bullying issue in schools we believe the mentality of "oh it was just a joke" is something that actually perpetuates the problem. Bullies don't think to themselves "hey, I'm going to bully this person today." Bullying takes place because people fail to recognize their behavior as abusive in the first place.

Whether that translates to a group of adults on the internet, and whether anybody cares about that, is up for debate.

To Bill's point--I think the clear line of demarcation would be when epithets enter the picture (granted I have not witnessed this myself yet).

Tik-Tok of Oz · May 30, 2018

U ulackfocus
Good point, and one that's been discussed, albeit briefly, before. I'd love to see an abridged version of the two added to the registration page, sort of like a User Agreement* that you have to check off as read before being allowed to join.

*which we all know that nobody reads anyway. 🤦 😜

You know speaking as a noob I read all the stickies in the forums and honestly lurked for months before even joining the forum in 2016 precisely because I didn’t want to ask stupid questions.

Didn’t help... I still ask stupid questions. But learned a lot more than I ever thought.

MMMD · May 30, 2018

michael22
I just say what I think. Sometimes I decide not to say it...

I'm most proud of the things I haven't said. Particularly in the work place, but also here.

I know it's a tragedy to deprive the world of every brilliant bon mot and put-down that flashes across my frontal lobes--not to mention all the jewels of unsolicited admiration gone undelivered to the lovely females in my employ--but the HR director has no idea who I am, and that's just fine.

Tik-Tok of Oz · May 30, 2018

Bill Sohne
Hi everyone....

To be serious for a moment... The purpose of the thread is Not about how we smack down a newbee. , a FAQ .. Or the tone of the forum. I am not blaming anyone for what this place is or is not...

The intent of my post is about personal attacks and dog piles etc and to keep in the back of the of everyone mind when is enough enough...
and I dont blame Dennis.... even with a 50 jacket size? ( that is USA sizing )

--- Now back to

"Toro Toro" as i wave the red cape in front of you.....

Good Hunting..

Bill

I think there is a certain line where you are being abused for abuse sake. This is distinct in my mind from being informed that I’m being lazy or choosing to be ignorant when information on the site is available if you care to look.

Besides....
If I want personal attacks I’ll go talk with my wife....
😁

ulackfocus · May 30, 2018

Tik-Tok of Oz
Besides....
If I want personal attacks I’ll go talk with my wife....
😁

Dude, that's old school! Nowadays, you just post something on the internet for a lambasting - no matrimony necessary.

I'm bowing out of this thread because I've said what I wanted to and feel no need to repeat myself. I'm leaving you all with a couple thoughts about trying to change internet attitudes....

1) Mark Manson explained it better than I ever could: https://markmanson.net/internet

2) A picture speaks a thousand words, and this captures what I think about trying to change the way people post anywhere:

Cyber Etiquette, Please Read

Bill Sohne

STANDY

Bill Sohne

Bill Sohne

michael22

gatorcpa

michael22

oddboy

ulackfocus

efauser

BenBagbag

ulackfocus

efauser

oddboy

Bill Sohne

cimo

Tik-Tok of Oz

MMMD

Tik-Tok of Oz

ulackfocus

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