Constellation Pie Pan - originality questions and restoration advise

Citizaniac · Jun 5, 2022

Hi all,

I have this nice Constellation Pie Pan Crosshair, with bicolor case, which I got from ebay. Unfortunately the dial is repainted, and not in a good way. So I want it to be redone again (By Bill&Sons). And I want a "correct" restoration. So I need the experts 😉
The movement serial number is 17mill, which dates it to 1960.
Case number is 14381.

So the more I search on the Inet, the more questions I have:
- Is the crosshair correct or should it just have a black PiePan? I do not find many PiePan + Crosshair on the Inet. Maybe it was just the fantasy of the previous owner? I didn't find a picture of a second Constellation with that design.
- matt or glossy finish of the dial?
- dial currently has lume on the indexes, should that be? But then it should also have lume on the hands, doesn't it?
- Is the crown correct? Or should it be a 8-sided crown? In silver or gold?

Do you have any other advise for restoration?

any help is welcome.
Tim

Dan S · Jun 5, 2022

You might peruse this thread, and also search for others.
https://omegaforums.net/threads/omega-constellation-black-dial.64863/

MtV · Jun 5, 2022

Citizaniac
So the more I search on the Inet, the more questions I have:
- Is the crosshair correct or should it just have a black PiePan? I do not find many PiePan + Crosshair on the Inet. Maybe it was just the fantasy of the previous owner? I didn't find a picture of a second Constellation with that design.
- matt or glossy finish of the dial?
- dial currently has lume on the indexes, should that be? But then it should also have lume on the hands, doesn't it?
- Is the crown correct? Or should it be a 8-sided crown? In silver or gold?

Do you have any other advise for restoration?

any help is welcome.
Tim

In the order of your questions:

1. Cross hairs do exist on original pie pan dials, also on black ones:

2. Both glossy and matt finish exist.
3. Yes, your watch is supposed to have lume on both hands and on the dial. The openings in the middle of your hands are currently empty, which means the lume was removed. Make sure whoever does the relume knows what he’s doing, eg. no modern, fluorescent neon-green lume.
4. Crown is incorrect, should be a gold-plated example of either style of the pics I posted above.
5. General advise: I’m not sure I’d pursue this, as in the end you’ll still have a redialled watch. It definitely doesn’t make sense financially, should that be a concern.

One last thing: I’m not quite sure this is actually a pie pan dial. Hard to judge from the pictures, but redials often have pie-pan-style minute ticks on dome dials to create the illusion of being the more expensive dial variant. Which would also explain the second hand, as it seems to protrude the minute ticks all the way to the edge of the dial? Some more pictures would help to determine that, though.

Noddyman · Jun 5, 2022

Citizaniac
Unfortunately the dial is repainted, and not in a good way.

I’ve seen worse! The cross-hair has been applied heavily but the rest of the dial doesn’t look too bad to be fair. I personally wouldn’t bother having it redone as I’m not sure what your going to achieve.

Here’s my 14381 with lume, cross-hair and decagonal crown.

Dan S · Jun 5, 2022

BTW, I agree that I wouldn't bother pursuing a re-dial. It will never be an actual gilt dial, and you might not even get something that looks much better. If the dial is actually a pie-pan (and I'm not sure it is), then the shape has been badly rounded by the previous re-finishing. Maybe just repair the markers and have the hands re-lumed.

Citizaniac · Jun 5, 2022

Thank you all a lot for your quick and founded answers and the great pictures. This motivates me to go on with that project!
You are right, it might not be worth spending 200-300€ on redoing the dial, ending up with a result is not much better than now. What bothers me most, is that the edges from the pie pan have been rounded up. And yes, it is a pie pan (see from the underside) or better: it was. And the "rough" paint. I can do better paintings with a spray can.

Do all these dials (with golden indices) lack the "officially certified"?

Ok, I think will just accept the dial as part of the history of the watch and do some minor corrections.

Dan S · Jun 5, 2022

You're probably already aware of this, but the gilt dials were not made by printing over black with gold paint, but by removing black paint from a gilt substrate. So a redialed "gilt" dial will never really look right.

https://omegaforums.net/threads/gilt-dial-omegas.45730/

Peemacgee · Jun 5, 2022

The missing text dial was an Omega experiment lasting around 4-5 years. (Roughly 58/59 - 62/63)
They primarily appear on refs 14381/14393 but also 14900/14902 and less commonly 167.005/168.005 and 168.004.
Both early and late 14381/14393 refs can have full text dials but I don’t think any (authenticated) mid-range-date versions have been seen with full text dials.

Citizaniac · Jun 5, 2022

Now the movement is running again...

I also fixed that index on the dial - and had to see that the index at 11 is not fixable. They soldered the dial foot beyond it in such a bad way, that the dial is bent and the index is not laying flat. To fix that, you would have to remove the foot again 🙁
Also I realized that the index at 10 is shorter than the others. You can see that at the first picture.
Man, I hate everything about that dial!

TexOmega · Jun 5, 2022

Thank you for posting this Cautionary Tale for others to read down through the years.

ConElPueblo · Jun 6, 2022

Peemacgee
The missing text dial was an Omega experiment lasting around 4-5 years. (Roughly 58/59 - 62/63)
They primarily appear on refs 14381/14393 but also 14900/14902 and less commonly 167.005/168.005 and 168.004.

And on 2852-16s 😀

Peemacgee · Jun 6, 2022

ConElPueblo
And on 2852-16s 😀

I knew I'd miss one!
This should be added to the 'less commonly' pile.

Would I be right in thinking that is the late 2852 with a screw back?

ConElPueblo · Jun 6, 2022

Peemacgee
I knew I'd miss one!
This should be added to the 'less commonly' pile.

Would I be right in thinking that is the late 2852 with a screw back?

I thought all 2852s had snapbacks? This one had 😀

Peemacgee · Jun 6, 2022

ConElPueblo
I thought all 2852s had snapbacks? This one had 😀

I might be wrong but I was sure I’d seen some late 2852s that had screw backs posted on OF.
(I don’t delve into 2852s so much that I can be certain)

cristos71 · Jun 6, 2022

Peemacgee
I might be wrong but I was sure I’d seen some late 2852s that had screw backs posted on OF.
(I don’t delve into 2852s so much that I can be certain)

Are you perhaps thinking of ref 2887, kind of a screw back 2852?

Peemacgee · Jun 6, 2022

cristos71
Are you perhaps thinking of ref 2887, kind of a screw back 2852?

I think you might be right. 👍

outta_gas · Jun 10, 2022

Citizaniac
Now the movement is running again...

I also fixed that index on the dial - and had to see that the index at 11 is not fixable. They soldered the dial foot beyond it in such a bad way, that the dial is bent and the index is not laying flat. To fix that, you would have to remove the foot again 🙁
Also I realized that the index at 10 is shorter than the others. You can see that at the first picture.
Man, I hate everything about that dial!

Nice work on the overhaul! Can't ask for too much better than that. How does it do in other positions?

Constellation Pie Pan - originality questions and restoration advise

Citizaniac

Dan S

MtV

Noddyman

Dan S

Citizaniac

Dan S

Peemacgee

Citizaniac

TexOmega

ConElPueblo

Peemacgee

ConElPueblo

Peemacgee

cristos71

Peemacgee

outta_gas

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