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Cons of Buying a Watch-Co Built Omega

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I think it boils down to individual attitudes. Nobody (including WatchCo) seems to be claiming these watches are either approved by or constructed by Omega. In fact, looking at the website as I type, there are frequent references to "New Old Stock" and also "100% original Omega" is quoted. I don't find either statement confusing or misleading.

In fact, if I was inclined to purchase from them (and I'm not), the fact that a lot of their watches have the movement and case reference quoted gives me ample opportunity to check the conformance with the original Omega factory specification. Thereafter, it's entirely my decision as to whether to purchase or not. What they have given me is that choice.

I believe it's a choice that at least 10 members here made via a bulk purchase. I suppose it's possible that they all got together after delivery, grabbed pitchforks and flaming torches and consigned them to fiery perdition as abominations.....................::stirthepot::
 
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I see your point Al and it's a good one. But hear me out. First I AM bringing watchco into this as that is the whole tenor of the thread.

Let's say if Omega or an authorized dealer does it WITH KNOWLEDGE AND APPROVAL FROM OMEGA, it's one and the same. Now you have a legitimate converted, modified or custom made watch. That's what you have IMO.

Taking it one step further. Woukd Omega or that authorized service center sell that watch as new?

Because that is the thing here...

So, understanding and granting your points here is where I stand"

A customized, modified, converted or Franken watch is that, just that. It may be legitimately done by the brand or affiliates, accepted by them or non legitimately modified by a third party. In either case it is still a converted, modified, Franken or whatever you call it.

This may or may not affect the value. If Henta modified a seamaster I would probably pay a premium, if my neighbor did it not so much.

But in No case should these watches be sold as new, or NOS, they should be sold as modified and or frankens. If by Omega then as authorized custom builds or one of' if by a third party as third party.

Just like Tudorr is not Rolex but "Tudor by Rolex" watchco should be "Omega by Watchco" and carry a distinguishing brand stamp so they are not perceived or purchased by unknowing customers.

It is NOT wether the modifications are acceptable or not, is what they are made for, and sold as.

Hope that clarifies my point, which doesn't really conflict much with yours
 
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Mouse_at_Large Mouse_at_Large
I think it boils down to individual attitudes. Nobody (including WatchCo) seems to be claiming these watches are either approved by or constructed by Omega. In fact, looking at the website as I type, there are frequent references to "New Old Stock" and also "100% original Omega" is quoted. I don't find either statement confusing or misleading.

In fact, if I was inclined to purchase from them (and I'm not), the fact that a lot of their watches have the movement and case reference quoted gives me ample opportunity to check the conformance with the original Omega factory specification. Thereafter, it's entirely my decision as to whether to purchase or not. What they have given me is that choice.

I believe it's a choice that at least 10 members here made via a bulk purchase. I suppose it's possible that they all got together after delivery, grabbed pitchforks and flaming torches and consigned them to fiery perdition as abominations.....................::stirthepot::

It's a great choice to make if you know it. But there are people around that do not even know there is a distinction or research to be made. Take Tom and his NOS movement perception or read around forums for years and you will see many cases of people that only learned the difference after the fact.

If you know what you're buying it's your money and taste and choice, and not a bad one. But it's when some of these buyers try to convince me they have a genuine and original Omega watch that I cringe. It's an "omega by watchco" and it is not new, it's an assembled watch from used and new parts. And that is great, if that's what you want to buy.

Placing the burden on the buyer alone is not fair IMO. Full disclosure and transparency should be sold along with the watch, without having to dig for it.

That's why secondary effects have to be listed on medications, you shouldn't have to be a medical expert to take an aspirin, neither should you have to be a watch expert to buy a watch.
 
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I've said many times all SM300 watches like this out there are called "Watchco" regardless if they are in fact done by Watchco. If you want to attack Watchco the company then by all means do so, but attacking all these watches as if they were made and sold under dubious pretense is a big error in my view, and to me that appears to be what you are doing. The fact you continue to bring this back to Watchco even though I'm talking about something completely different shows a clear bias.

I've said it before, they are far from the only place that is converting watches to the SM300, but all will be called "Watchco" because that is commonly understood shorthand for a converted watch on most forums (at least the ones I am a member of). If anything this label helps distinguish it from a genuine vintage piece for noobs, or a vintage piece that has had the Omega restoration treatment that Tom would likely be all for, where any sense of "vintage" has been removed.

Again this activity is condoned by, and done by, Omega. The watches are legitimate Omega watches in that way. The fact that they are sold in a misrepresented way (NOS when the parts are not really old at all, just new parts) by one seller has no impact on what they actually are - this is the part that you seem to have trouble separating, and what I am trying to get to.

I see no need for some co-branding exercise that in my view is an even bigger error. They just need to stop saying "NOS" and that would essentially clear up the whole thing about what the watches really are. Taking it one step further, they should not be selling these at all, but if they took in a watch that you sent them, converted it, and sent it back as a SM300, it would be perfectly legit and by the book. But the end result would be exactly the same in terms of the actual watch.

"Taking it one step further. Woukd Omega or that authorized service center sell that watch as new?"

No because as I've already stated there is no watch to sell. Omega does not sell these, but will convert your property that you send them to do so.

And with regards to Tom's watch, he was told it was a NOS replacement movement, and I did question that with him some time ago. All the watches put together by Watchco that I have serviced have had clear signs of being old movements, but that is not to say that they didn't stumble upon an unused movement somewhere from back when movements were able to be purchased as complete units as spares, as can be done with modern movements that are still in production. The point is I can't prove it either way and neither can you, so for you to keep using it as an example is probably pushing it.

Cheers, Al
 
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It's a great choice to make if you know it. But there are people around that do not even know there is a distinction or research to be made. Take Tom and his NOS movement perception or read around forums for years and you will see many cases of people that only learned the difference after the fact.

If you know what you're buying it's your money and taste and choice, and not a bad one. But it's when some of these buyers try to convince me they have a genuine and original Omega watch that I cringe. It's an "omega by watchco" and it is not new, it's an assembled watch from used and new parts. And that is great, if that's what you want to buy.

Placing the burden on the buyer alone is not fair IMO. Full disclosure and transparency should be sold along with the watch, without having to dig for it.

That's why secondary effects have to be listed on medications, you shouldn't have to be a medical expert to take an aspirin, neither should you have to be a watch expert to buy a watch.

With all due respect, I don't entirely agree with your assertion about "full disclosure and transparency".Leaving aside what exactly that means, a watch is a discretionary purchase at this price point, and I would suggest that most people considering spending this amount of money should at least do some due dilligence. I would also suggest that most countries have (to a greater or lesser extent) reasonably well developed consumer rights legislation. If WatchCo were using fraudulent or even misleading statements, I'd expect them to have ended up in court and to have lost the case.
 
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I've said many times all SM300 watches like this out there are called "Watchco" regardless if they are in fact done by Watchco. If you want to attack Watchco the company then by all means do so, but attacking all these watches as if they were made and sold under dubious pretense is a big error in my view, and to me that appears to be what you are doing. The fact you continue to bring this back to Watchco even though I'm talking about something completely different shows a clear bias.

I've said it before, they are far from the only place that is converting watches to the SM300, but all will be called "Watchco" because that is commonly understood shorthand for a converted watch on most forums (at least the ones I am a member of). If anything this label helps distinguish it from a genuine vintage piece for noobs, or a vintage piece that has had the Omega restoration treatment that Tom would likely be all for, where any sense of "vintage" has been removed.

Again this activity is condoned by, and done by, Omega. The watches are legitimate Omega watches in that way. The fact that they are sold in a misrepresented way (NOS when the parts are not really old at all, just new parts) by one seller has no impact on what they actually are - this is the part that you seem to have trouble separating, and what I am trying to get to.

I see no need for some co-branding exercise that in my view is an even bigger error. They just need to stop saying "NOS" and that would essentially clear up the whole thing about what the watches really are. Taking it one step further, they should not be selling these at all, but if they took in a watch that you sent them, converted it, and sent it back as a SM300, it would be perfectly legit and by the book. But the end result would be exactly the same in terms of the actual watch.

"Taking it one step further. Woukd Omega or that authorized service center sell that watch as new?"

No because as I've already stated there is no watch to sell. Omega does not sell these, but will convert your property that you send them to do so.

And with regards to Tom's watch, he was told it was a NOS replacement movement, and I did question that with him some time ago. All the watches put together by Watchco that I have serviced have had clear signs of being old movements, but that is not to say that they didn't stumble upon an unused movement somewhere from back when movements were able to be purchased as complete units as spares, as can be done with modern movements that are still in production. The point is I can't prove it either way and neither can you, so for you to keep using it as an example is probably pushing it.

Cheers, Al
Oh, I see a great part of the problem is miscommunication . I refer to watchco because that's the thread title and purpose but more to your point I am indeed talking about he Watchco company not using watchco as a noun.

To be honest, and much to my own ignorance level, I did not even know that watchco is some kind of general name given to assembled watches in this fashion, so reading my and your posts again with this in mind of course my statements seem a little to generalizing. Sorry for that and please account for the fact that I am talking about watchco, the Australian company and not watchco the term.

Taking it one step further, they should not be selling these at all, but if they took in a watch that you sent them, converted it, and sent it back as a SM300, it would be perfectly legit and by the book. But the end result would be exactly the same in terms of the actual watch.

I AGREE!! As j stated before I have nothing against work done on any watch by anyone, it's the purpose and marketing behind it that I argue against .

I use Tom as an examples it's because it's blatant, but the internet has tons of comments from people that clearly did not know what they where buying so forget Tom, but there is a lot of deception around..

Anyway. Thank you for this back and forth as it's helped me work a couple of things out and also now I know watchco is a term, not just a business.
 
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They do modify watches...unless you buy into the idea that they are using all NOS movements that have never been in a watch - I for one don't buy that but YMMV. I know for a fact because I've serviced a number of Watchco watches that were just bought from them, and there was already wear on the parts inside, so they had clearly been used before they were modified to be a SM300.

If we are being accurate here, they are taking an existing watch, and changing the case, dial and hands, so they ARE modifying watches.

I'm the one whose auction said NOS movement. I figure it's a coin-flip.

Tom
 
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With all due respect, I don't entirely agree with your assertion about "full disclosure and transparency".Leaving aside what exactly that means, a watch is a discretionary purchase at this price point, and I would suggest that most people considering spending this amount of money should at least do some due dilligence. I would also suggest that most countries have (to a greater or lesser extent) reasonably well developed consumer rights legislation. If WatchCo were using fraudulent or even misleading statements, I'd expect them to have ended up in court and to have lost the case.
There's a line between shady and illegal, and there is no question that there are People that don't know what they are buying.

You put the burden on the buyer, I share that burden with the seller. Just like in eBay.... A carefully worded add may not be illegal, but this still meant to deceive.

Anyway, it is going too far though as the case is building into me saying watchco is a fraudulent evil company etc etc and that was not my intention. My intention originally was to state what IMO are the cons on buying a watchco ( business not term) watch versus an original. Sorry for the infered extension to that.
 
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VetPsychWars VetPsychWars
I'm the one whose auction said NOS movement. I figure it's a coin-flip.

Tom

I know, as we previously discussed some time ago, I would take that with a grain of salt. It would be difficult to prove either way, short of getting an Extract of the Archives, and I'm guessing it's not a big enough concern for you to bother, and I fully understand that.

Mine was certainly not a NOS movement, but it was still in very good cosmetic condition, and to me that is all that mattered:

 
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I saved the movement pictures that accompanied my auction. See if you can spot anything that leads you to think one way or another if it was NOS. They did say they serviced it before assembling the watch (as well they should). I, at the moment, do not care if it is or not, it's keeping time to less than one second per day over a three-week average.

Tom
$_57-2.JPG $_57-3.JPG $_57-4.JPG
 
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Oh, I see a great part of the problem is miscommunication . I refer to watchco because that's the thread title and purpose but more to your point I am indeed talking about he Watchco company not using watchco as a noun.

They have done several Omega models, the SM300 being the most common, but also Speedmasters as this thread indicates, SHOM's and Baby Ploprof's as well. I'm sure there are others, but I don't know if it extends beyond the Omega brand or not.

Certainly buying from a company that uses such practices is a drawback for some in that you are supporting them, but if you understand that going in (which the OP did certainly) then the real decision of substance becomes the watch itself. That is what I have been trying to get at. I've said several times I'm not a fan of what they do, but that doesn't make the end product less legit.

Cheers, Al
 
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VetPsychWars VetPsychWars
I saved the movement pictures that accompanied my auction. See if you can spot anything that leads you to think one way or another if it was NOS. They did say they serviced it before assembling the watch (as well they should). I, at the moment, do not care if it is or not, it's keeping time to less than one second per day over a three-week average.

Tom

Can't tell just from photos. That could be NOS, or it could just be one that was never hacked up during servicing, or it could be one that the owner wore it until it stopped, then tossed in a drawer* and the first time it was ever taken apart is when Watchco serviced it.

I can tell when I service one because if I find a bunch of worn pivots on wheels, it's certainly not a movement that has been sitting on a shelf for decades...

* Often these are the best movements, where other than wear from the first 6 or 7 years of use (until the watch stopped) the movement is pristine. All I have to do is replace a few worn parts and a general service, and they are typically great movements performance wise.
 
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U ulackfocus
Original. 🤦🙄

It's "authentic" Omega.

I don't see them making that claim, and I wouldn't call them that in any case......
 
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I LOVE to HATE Archie...in this case I do agree with him 100%... Pretty straight forward.

Same I love to hate Archie as well. He is entertainiing, even though what he says has to be taken lightly.
 
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kand serial numbest: 349557 said:
They are not "Frankens", they are modern "rebuilds" from authentic Omega parts. Their value is in their functionality and cosmetic appearance. They should be more reliable than a vintage watch in my opinion. I have never heard of them until now. Now I am seriously considering a Baby Ploprof.

The part and serial numbers are not the same. Omega staff do not put them together. God knows how people put them together and what other bits could be inside.
 
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U ulackfocus
To me, that is still a franken. If you had a pre-moon that a modern bezel and dial were put on, it would not be original, right? You guys would certainly look down on that. You Speedmaster dudes are from a different country than me though.


Agreed 100%
 
micampe
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[…] and if Omega is involved they will actually modify the listing to reflect the new model of the watch.
Interesting, and surprising actually. I didn't expect them to do that.
 
VetPsychWars
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To me, that is still a franken. If you had a pre-moon that a modern bezel and dial were put on, it would not be original, right? You guys would certainly look down on that. You Speedmaster dudes are from a different country than me though.

I wouldn't "look down on it". What the factory did is, at service, replace parts no longer up to spec with current replacements. There are so many industries where this happens, it's considered normal.

Burlington Northern Santa Fe is not going to reject a locomotive that Electro-Motive Diesel performed service and upgrade on because the headlights are no longer oriiginal....

Tom
 
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