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Cam vs column wheel.

Alex_TA
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M'Bob M'Bob
Can’t just answer a question without the subtle little jabs, huh?

Let me clear: no one likes either your subtextual, or overtly demeaning or condescending attitude. If it’s that stressful and aggravating for you to repeatedly deal with an issue another member is grappling with and doesn’t understand in the time frame or way you deem acceptable, rather than belittle them, DON’T RESPOND.

Just like you find it frustrating that others can’t absorb simple technical constructs, some of us are equally perplexed why an ostensibly smart guy can’t figure out how to keep his posts more gracious.

Are you taking on the role of a teacher of good manners for adults? Just appreciate the time he spends on detailed explanations.
 
M'Bob
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Alex_TA Alex_TA
Are you taking on the role of a teacher of good manners for adults? Just appreciate the time he spends on detailed explanations.

Didn’t know detailed explanations and courteous behavior were mutually exclusive.
 
GrouchoM
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Are any vertical clutch chronos triggered by cams? If not, any reason why?
 
YandB
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Wow that convo went for awhile. Go in and try the chrono action. The 321 has more resistance and metal scraping feel to it. At least mine does.
 
padders
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I no comment of the merits and drawbacks of cam vs wheel switching vis a vis the 321 vs 861, I have both and to me the speedy with the best pusher feel is the 3313 Broad Arrow but to each their own.

A peripheral but still IMO pertinent point is that when Omega went over to the 861 in 1969 they kept the 3 intermediate index ticks used on the 321 dials despite the higher beat rate of the 861. I realise that in the real world sub 1sec accuracy is not what you use one of these for but the use of the wrong number of sub indices guarantees 861 and most 1861 models are inaccurate, whereas a 321 at least hits a mark every time. They have remedied this on the 3861 models. That annoys me more than cams vs crowns.
Edited:
 
Archer
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GrouchoM GrouchoM
Are any vertical clutch chronos triggered by cams? If not, any reason why?

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any, but there might be one out there somewhere. I've not really studied the idea in great detail, but I don't see any reason why you couldn't do it using a cam. Whether cam or column wheel, the function is just to move a few levers - it's just a simple switch, but people attach a lot of importance to it here.

Of all the forums I've been on, this is the one that is most preoccupied with cams v column wheels. Maybe that's because Omega has made both, but every forum has it's quirks in this regard. On WUS there's a never ending debate about beat rates that waxes and wanes over time, but never really goes away completely. Beat rates rarely get mentioned here, but over there they have a similar what I would call "over importance" being put on that specific design parameter.

Like I've said before, all watch movements are a series of compromises, but generally they all work out pretty well, with only the occasional stinker being produced by watch companies.
 
GrouchoM
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Archer Archer
Off the top of my head, I can't think of any, but there might be one out there somewhere. I've not really studied the idea in great detail, but I don't see any reason why you couldn't do it using a cam. Whether cam or column wheel, the function is just to move a few levers - it's just a simple switch, but people attach a lot of importance to it here.
For me, I have a slight preference for a cam for durability (I've had some wonderfully snappy column wheels and one VERY mushy one (JLC)). However, I prefer an integrated vertical clutch to most lateral clutched couplings (no initial jump, no risk of coupling pinion jamming).
 
padders
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Archer Archer
Off the top of my head, I can't think of any, but there might be one out there somewhere. I've not really studied the idea in great detail, but I don't see any reason why you couldn't do it using a cam. Whether cam or column wheel, the function is just to move a few levers - it's just a simple switch, but people attach a lot of importance to it here.

Of all the forums I've been on, this is the one that is most preoccupied with cams v column wheels. Maybe that's because Omega has made both, but every forum has it's quirks in this regard. On WUS there's a never ending debate about beat rates that waxes and wanes over time, but never really goes away completely. Beat rates rarely get mentioned here, but over there they have a similar what I would call "over importance" being put on that specific design parameter.

Like I've said before, all watch movements are a series of compromises, but generally they all work out pretty well, with only the occasional stinker being produced by watch companies.

I suspect it is the Zenith Fanbois who focus most on beat rate (and we don't seem to have too many here) since they are one of the few manufacturers who have tried 36Kph AFAIK no Omega ever went above 28kbph and much of the current stuff is down at 25.2kbph, the 321 soldiers on at 18kbph of course so no bragging rights on that score.
 
Archer
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padders padders
I suspect it is the Zenith Fanbois who focus most on beat rate (and we don't seem to have too many here) since they are one of the few manufacturers who have tried 36Kph AFAIK no Omega ever went above 28K and much of the current stuff is down at 25.2Kph

I would say the vast majority are Rolex guys - they want to draw a distinction between 28,800 = perfect/the best/superlative, and 25,200 = inferior/sub-standard/pathetic. You know, the same old same old.

It's kind of hilarious, but sad at the same time. There's a ton of energy spent on forums arguing technical items (which sometimes they lack any real understanding of) in order to justify one preference over another. I've never bought a watch because of some technical advantage it might have over a competitor's watch - I just buy what I like. But I guess forums would be pretty boring if that's all that was said.
 
STANDY
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Cam v Column debate…..

Shit, this is the Cat v Dog topic that has been around here forever.
The Omega should bring back the 321 went on for 8-10 years before they did…Then it was why are they so expensive and exclusive.

I have been here a long time and have read @Archer stance on the Cam v Column and been educated by the probably 30-40 pictures in his explaining over so many threads.

There is a great thread on the whole topic a few years back that goes for 20-30 pages when the whole 321 purist movement fanboys arrived on mass when this became a Speedmaster forum more than the shiny Gold constellations forum it used to be.

fυck a X-33 movement is better than both.

Crisper push v mushy nostalgia. I know which one I think is better….::psy:: 😝
Edited:
 
blufinz52
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Archer Archer
Of all the forums I've been on, this is the one that is most preoccupied with cams v column wheels.

This is probably directly related to the Moonwatch and its special place among OF members.
 
Archer
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blufinz52 blufinz52
This is probably directly related to the Moonwatch and its special place among OF members.

Yes - hence my initial skepticism in this thread that the valuing of the column wheel is as universal amongst watch collectors as one member here had stated. I think if the original watch that was involved in the early space program and went to the moon had a cam, the interest in the column wheel here would be diminished compared to the present situation.
 
blufinz52
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Archer Archer
Yes - hence my initial skepticism in this thread that the valuing of the column wheel is as universal amongst watch collectors as one member here had stated. I think if the original watch that was involved in the early space program and went to the moon had a cam, the interest in the column wheel here would be diminished compared to the present situation.

I value both equally 😀
 
Kmmdad57
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Archer Archer
Because the watch media and influencers said so, that's why! 😉
I have never operated a column wheel. Does it feel better? I heard it doesn't make a little jump like the cam system sometimes.
 
Archer
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Kmmdad57 Kmmdad57
I have never operated a column wheel. Does it feel better?

Not to me.

Kmmdad57 Kmmdad57
I heard it doesn't make a little jump like the cam system sometimes.

As I mentioned on page 1, it's not related to be being a cam or column wheel.
 
M'Bob
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blufinz52 blufinz52
This is probably directly related to the Moonwatch and its special place among OF members.

Undoubtedly true. There’s nothing about the particular demographic that frequents this forum to point to an alternative reason why people here are “preoccupied with cams v column wheels.”
 
Archer
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M'Bob M'Bob
Undoubtedly true. There’s nothing about the particular demographic that frequents this forum to point to an alternative reason why people here are “preoccupied with cams v column wheels.”

Yes, exactly...from page 2

Archer Archer
I think it's pretty clear that the 321 has other reasons for being so revered, so I would push back on the idea that the primary reason (or even a major reason) it is valued is because of a column wheel.

Has the circle been closed finally?
 
M'Bob
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Well, to be fair, the quote you put up from page two proffers “other reasons” as an explanation for the column wheel being revered, which is clearly a non-specific answer:

Archer Archer
I think it's pretty clear that the 321 has other reasons for being so revered, so I would push back on the idea that the primary reason (or even a major reason) it is valued is because of a column wheel

This may have included the specific reason noted below, or not:

blufinz52 blufinz52
This is probably directly related to the Moonwatch and its special place among OF members.

So, if you believe @blufins52 quote is the reason you were referring to in your “other reasons,” then, yes, the circle is closed, as you say.

However, if the “other reasons” include, well, another reason, then let us know, and then it’s also finished.
 
Archer
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M'Bob M'Bob
Well, to be fair, the quote you put up from page two proffers “other reasons” as an explanation for the column wheel being revered, which is clearly a non-specific answer:

This may have included the specific reason noted below, or not:

So, if you believe @blufins52 quote is the reason you were referring to in your “other reasons,” then, yes, the circle is closed, as you say.

However, if the “other reasons” include, well, another reason, then let us know, and then it’s also finished.

Yes, as I specifically said in reply to you, again on page 2...

Archer Archer
But to get back to the crux of this thread, I don't believe it is revered simply because it has a column wheel. If the first watch on the moon used a cam operated chronograph, I think the movement would be just as revered. The column wheel is incidental to the "hype" as you put it.

It seems we all recognize why the 321 is so revered, and hence the column wheel - glad we could sort all that out.
 
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