Community Stories

Breaking News: The New Steel Speedmaster With Caliber 321 “Ed White”

M'Bob
Posts
6,707
Likes
21,636
Archer Archer
I think it is a real risk with brands pursuing this strategy.

i guess the question remains, is it a strategy, or a lack of workers due to the pandemic, etc.? In other words, is it just dumb luck that the shortage instigates more demand, or can they really put out what they want, and are purposely limiting supply.

I don’t know of it, but there must be some marketing research somewhere that demonstrates a tipping point for highly demanded, limited supply luxury goods: obviously, there is an optimal time period for interest, and beyond that, it wanes.
For me, regarding watches, I would wait 6-8 months and beyond that, I’m out.
 
Archer
Posts
27,646
Likes
70,276
M'Bob M'Bob
i guess the question remains, is it a strategy, or a lack of workers due to the pandemic, etc.? In other words, is it just dumb luck that the shortage instigates more demand, or can they really put out what they want, and are purposely limiting supply.

I think the current situation is at least partly due to the pandemic. Supply chains are still very messed up, and I still have delays that are way beyond normal when ordering parts from Swatch, that have to come from Switzerland. They would typically tell me anything coming from there was 1-2 weeks extra (where if it's in stock here in Canada I'll have it the next day via FedEx). During the worst times they were telling me 6-8 weeks, and it was often longer than that (some parts I waited several months for, which has never happened in all the years I've ordered from them before the pandemic). Now they typically tell me 2-4 weeks, and it's more towards the 4 than the 2.

I don't know if this is due to labour shortages, material shortage, issue with shipping (which are huge at the moment globally), or what the specific thing is, but I do believe this is playing a role still. Of course unless you work for these guys there's no real way to know for certain.

M'Bob M'Bob
I don’t know of it, but there must be some marketing research somewhere that demonstrates a tipping point for highly demanded, limited supply luxury goods: obviously, there is an optimal time period for interest, and beyond that, it wanes.

For me, regarding watches, I would wait 6-8 months and beyond that, I’m out.

Not sure where the tipping point is broadly, but I've seen many people saying they are "done with Rolex" due to the current system. Rolex being the obvious one since they are the brand that seems to be the most unlikely to meet demand. Now would these people come back once availability opens up, if it ever does? I think this is what Rolex is counting on.
 
texasmade
Posts
2,406
Likes
2,530
I wouldn't mind adding a Rolex one day if I could ever get a Pepsi or Batman GMT at MSRP without having to do the ridiculous AD games. The GMT is really the only Rolex I like.

If Omega ever came out with a decent sized GMT watch (the current PO GMT is just way too big for me), then I would pass on getting a Rolex.
 
cvalue13
Posts
3,979
Likes
8,987
M'Bob M'Bob
I don’t know of it, but there must be some marketing research somewhere that demonstrates a tipping point for highly demanded, limited supply luxury goods: obviously, there is an optimal time period for interest, and beyond that, it wanes.

For decades luxury clothing brands have done things like burn and destroy extra inventory, precisely because exclusivity of brand identity is their only actual product (plenty of products are made as well as Gucci, and are available). Doesn’t appear waning is the issue in the luxury fashion sector, but instead the goal is to cultivate ever increasing exclusivity.

I just think it’s possible we’re watching luxury Swiss watch companies finally wrestle with the business-shift from having historically been manufacturers of a product to instead - much like luxury fashion - being manufacturers primarily of a luxury brand, that fundamentally sells exclusivity as a product.

if so, as a knock-on effect here in this cord, we’re together the historical clientele also adjusting to the changing realities?

Maybe Omega instead decides it wants to be the fashion equivalent Zara (fast fashion for the masses) and compete more directly with mobile phones and smart watches; but that’s not my personal impression of it’s aspirations.
 
Archer
Posts
27,646
Likes
70,276
cvalue13 cvalue13
if so, as a knock-on effect here in this cord, we’re together the historical clientele also adjusting to the changing realities?

Possibly - but I think most here hope this trend of not being able to buy the products you want, doesn't continue. Alienating your historical customers (and potential new customers who can't buy your products) I don't think is a good idea.

cvalue13 cvalue13
Maybe Omega instead decides it wants to be the fashion equivalent Zara (fast fashion for the masses) and compete more directly with mobile phones and smart watches; but that’s not my personal impression of it’s aspirations.

There are different ways to make your products exclusive, and Omega is raising prices and limiting discounts. Fast fashion is cheap and disposable, and Omegas are not cheap (even comparatively speaking) and certainly not disposable as they tend to support their watches even longer than Rolex does, so I don't think that's necessarily a good example to use as the alternative to doing the Rolex thing.

I really don't think Omega wants to be like Rolex - Rolex recognized a very long time ago that their path to success was to be a brand, not a watchmaker. They invested heavily into the watch being known as something people buy a status symbol of some kind. Omega I think has chosen to take a path through being better at making watches, rather than better at advertising.

I think there's a balance to be struck between having empty shelves and a glut of products, that allows a level of exclusivity that can keep the brand moving forward.
Edited:
 
pdxleaf
Posts
5,096
Likes
17,738
Archer Archer
... Omega I think has chosen to take a path through being better at making watches, rather than better at advertising.

I think there's a balance to be struck between having empty shelves and a glut of products, that allows a level of exclusivity that can keep the brand moving forward.

+1

One of Omega's appeals to me is their high quality at a decent price (relative to other mid-level and up luxury watches.) The every person's luxury brand.

Again, my preference for exclusivity is for it to be determined by the price point as opposed to being a certain unspoken class of customer.

(If you're out there Omega, keep making those watches.)
 
cvalue13
Posts
3,979
Likes
8,987
Archer Archer
Fast fashion is cheap and disposable, and Omegas are not cheap (even comparatively speaking)

Yeah, Zara wasn’t a perfect metaphor but instead what came to mind, in a pinch, as a business still involved in “present” fashion but modeled to sell as many products as possible/not trading on exclusivity.

To play with the metaphor, it could be possible for Omega to instead decide to in effect segment its brand the way some luxury fashion houses have less expensive, more available secondary lines that allow them to reach out to a more consumers, without compromising their main brand reputation. I think of eg Versace vs Versace for H&M, or Alexander McQueen vs McQ, etc. Pair this approach with more DTC sales of the “secondary” lines, and it seems like the sort of things a company might dream up.

In which case if the intended model looks anything like in these luxury fashion houses, we’d expect to still see segmentation of higher priced and relatively unobtainable pieces playing a brand-leading roll for Omega. Only time will tell!

That might be a version of your “balance to be struck between having empty shelves and a glut of products, that allows a level of exclusivity that can keep the brand moving forward,” but would still entail that some watches in the line would not be available to every customer.

Looking at the private manufacturers’ successes, and the luxury fashion industry that watches are increasingly more similar to, I would be surprised though if the end result for Omega was “everyone should get any watch in our portfolio.”
 
cvalue13
Posts
3,979
Likes
8,987
Too long with not enough pictures - and all this talk today had me finally move my 321 to a strap for the coming fall weather

1AB24979-DEEE-46EA-B513-F2943B16B244.jpeg
 
Archer
Posts
27,646
Likes
70,276
cvalue13 cvalue13
To play with the metaphor, it could be possible for Omega to instead decide to in effect segment its brand the way some luxury fashion houses have less expensive, more available secondary lines that allow them to reach out to a more consumers, without compromising their main brand reputation. I think of eg Versace vs Versace for H&M, or Alexander McQueen vs McQ, etc. Pair this approach with more DTC sales of the “secondary” lines, and it seems like the sort of things a company might dream up.

Swatch already does this with their various brands, so I'm not sure they are going to pursue this to any great extent within a brand that they have already spent time and effort positioning in a specific place. But time will tell.

As of a few years ago, they started moving Omega slightly upwards, and then made changes at Longines to have them come in and sort of "backfill" the spot (or a portion of it in reality) that Omega once had in their hierarchy.

cvalue13 cvalue13
That might be a version of your “balance to be struck between having empty shelves and a glut of products, that allows a level of exclusivity that can keep the brand moving forward,” but would still entail that some watches in the line would not be available to every customer.

They are already doing this, but just with 2 watches currently. For me, that's enough, and for you maybe that's not enough. For many though, it's already too much. 😀

cvalue13 cvalue13
Looking at the private manufacturers’ successes, and the luxury fashion industry that watches are increasingly more similar to, I would be surprised though if the end result for Omega was “everyone should get any watch in our portfolio.”

Don't think anyone has said this, and personally as I noted I'm fine with having the odd limited production watch.

I guess in the end I would want their strategy to pass some sort of "reasonableness" test. That test may vary between people obviously, but I think it's reasonable to have some limited pieces, but make the majority of your watches generally available. Sure even have a wait time if you want of a month or two on some watches, but not the sort of nonsense that we see with Rolex, where dealers want you to submit some silly resume, and buy up tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of other things in order to "qualify" for the watch you really want.
 
cvalue13
Posts
3,979
Likes
8,987
Archer Archer
They are already doing this, but just with 2 watches currently. For me, that's enough, and for you maybe that's not enough. For many though, it's already too much.

For me personally, I don’t care to play the chase-games for new watches. 😟

With the 321, I’d only previously ever bought one new Omega, from a boutique in Japan. When the 321 released, I played nicely with the Houston OB, sent pictures of all my vintage Omega, put in a full deposit, followed up every few months, and then ~360 days later was lucky to get the watch. For me those efforts weren’t *so* emasculating, but only relative to how badly I wanted the 321 (at MSRP). Much as I’ve ever done for any watch.

It’s not that I enjoy or seek to participate in the watch exclusivity “game,” it’s instead just that I don’t blame the companies for playing those games for those types of customers.

Plenty of obtainable watches elsewhere!

I would very much like a Royal Oak Jumbo at MSRP but that desire is in the same box as my lottery tickets.
 
pdxleaf
Posts
5,096
Likes
17,738
cvalue13 cvalue13
For me personally, I don’t care to play the chase-games for new watches. 😟

With the 321, I’d only previously ever bought one new Omega, from a boutique in Japan. When the 321 released, I played nicely with the Houston OB, sent pictures of all my vintage Omega, put in a full deposit, followed up every few months, and then ~360 days later was lucky to get the watch. For me those efforts weren’t *so* emasculating, but only relative to how badly I wanted the 321 (at MSRP). Much as I’ve ever done for any watch....

With all due respect, this sounds like you're playing a game.

This also sounds a bit condescending. I don't believe you intended it to be so but it does.
 
cvalue13
Posts
3,979
Likes
8,987
pdxleaf pdxleaf
With all due respect, this sounds like you're playing a game.

Did I pay a deposit, politely respond to polite requests for information, and wait almost a year for a watch I really wanted that is genuinely rare (<1,000/yr)? Yep. If that’s “playing the exclusivity game” we’ve been talking about, then I guess you caught me.

But I did not make a habit of purchasing 5 precious metal lady-Datejusts and a pink gold Yachtmaster to obtain the newest SS GMT - which I took to be more like the game we were talking about?

pdxleaf pdxleaf
This also sounds a bit condescending. I don't believe you intended it to be so but it does.

I suppose I did mean to be somewhat condescending to the *idea* (not any person) that it’s somehow rude or unfair of a watch manufacturer to expect levels of effort past just *asking for a watch and paying for it.*

New Ford Bronco Raptor is going to come out, they won’t make many: long-standing Ford customers with repeat purchases, who are nice, and have a relationship with a productive sales person will have the best shot.

New Tesla Cyber Truck: long-standing customers with repeat purchases, who are nice, will take the first year’s worth of deliveries.

Neighborhood bagel shop only makes a few dozen egg bagels on Saturdays: they set some aside for folks who consistently buy them every Saturday.

On and on… completely familiar and acceptable concept in sales, to me.

I’m assuming you feel otherwise given that you characterized my efforts toward the 321 as “playing the game,” and also that you took my characterization as condescending?
 
M'Bob
Posts
6,707
Likes
21,636
An interesting issue is what propels the intense desire to obtain these things.

I had a hold on the new bronze 300, and the soon thereafter cancelled it. Truth is, I simply got caught up in the groundswell, and when I took a step back, I saw more clearly that it wasn’t for me.

Purveyors of luxury items don’t want you to do this, they want you to respond emotionally and reflexively, but when I get a disproportionate hankering for something, I often wonder what’s driving that. As a basic screening tool: if I want something and I like it, and don’t need to share the purchase with anyone else to enjoy it, that’s a good start.
 
Archer
Posts
27,646
Likes
70,276
cvalue13 cvalue13
Did I pay a deposit, politely respond to polite requests for information, and wait almost a year for a watch I really wanted that is genuinely rare (<1,000/yr)? Yep. If that’s “playing the exclusivity game” we’ve been talking about, then I guess you caught me.

But I did not make a habit of purchasing 5 precious metal lady-Datejusts and a pink gold Yachtmaster to obtain the newest SS GMT - which I took to be more like the game we were talking about?

Agreed - to me paying a deposit for something exclusive and waiting for it is not terribly unusual. I've never done it for a watch, but did it for my last car purchase. Ironically, the dealer I had all the "history" with gave me the run around for several months (his best offer ended up being a slightly used car at full new car price - no thanks), and I ended up calling a dealer I'd only bought from once who came through in very short order.
 
pdxleaf
Posts
5,096
Likes
17,738
cvalue13 cvalue13
Did I pay a deposit, politely respond to polite requests for information, and wait almost a year for a watch I really wanted that is genuinely rare (<1,000/yr)? Yep. If that’s “playing the exclusivity game” we’ve been talking about, then I guess you caught me.

But I did not make a habit of purchasing 5 precious metal lady-Datejusts and a pink gold Yachtmaster to obtain the newest SS GMT - which I took to be more like the game we were talking about?



I suppose I did mean to be somewhat condescending to the *idea* (not any person) that it’s somehow rude or unfair of a watch manufacturer to expect levels of effort past just *asking for a watch and paying for it.*

New Ford Bronco Raptor is going to come out, they won’t make many: long-standing Ford customers with repeat purchases, who are nice, and have a relationship with a productive sales person will have the best shot.

New Tesla Cyber Truck: long-standing customers with repeat purchases, who are nice, will take the first year’s worth of deliveries.

Neighborhood bagel shop only makes a few dozen egg bagels on Saturdays: they set some aside for folks who consistently buy them every Saturday.

On and on… completely familiar and acceptable concept in sales, to me.

I’m assuming you feel otherwise given that you characterized my efforts toward the 321 as “playing the game,” and also that you took my characterization as condescending?


Sorry, I should have pm'd you.

I get what you're saying.

Great watch, congrats.

Bronco Raptor, meh.
 
cvalue13
Posts
3,979
Likes
8,987
pdxleaf pdxleaf
Sorry, I should have pm'd you.

All good by me!

pdxleaf pdxleaf
Bronco Raptor, meh.

Yeah, pick your poison! I assume @Archer ’s was a BMW?

I’m actually only lined up for the new Ford Lightning, and thinking of all the things that will fit in its frunk.
 
pdxleaf
Posts
5,096
Likes
17,738
cvalue13 cvalue13
Yeah, pick your poison!
I’m actually only lined up for the new Ford Lightning, and thinking of all the things that will fit in its frunk.

The most fun/pound. And it has a frunk.
20210920_171904.jpg
 
Tuna Cowboy
Posts
151
Likes
635
@pdxleaf great car! For me personally I don't mind giving a deposit and waiting for the thing, but what irks me is the lack of customer service. Some of these companies act like the client is completely irrelevant and its actually the client who should be grateful for the opportunity to give them your money. Maybe I'm a little old fashioned but purchasing a luxury item should be a special experience watch car or whatever.
 
texasmade
Posts
2,406
Likes
2,530
cvalue13 cvalue13
I’m actually only lined up for the new Ford Lightning, and thinking of all the things that will fit in its frunk.
I'm so glad I managed to get an allocation in December 2020 for a Porsche 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 right before the huge chip shortage cliff. Now there's basically no allocations available.
 
cvalue13
Posts
3,979
Likes
8,987
pdxleaf pdxleaf
The most fun/pound. And it has a frunk.
20210920_171904.jpg

A beaut’!

I don’t know much about Porsche, but that vintage-ish of 911 alway been a fave.

Seems there’s a big pop culture resurgence for them, too, which has to be nice when you’ve already got one!
 
455 More Posts...
Sign up or log in to reply...

Similar threads

Omegafanman

Caliber 321"Ed White" 311.30.40.30.01.001 Speedmaster thread

Omegafanman Modern Omega Watches
Omegafanman
Omegafanman
Posts
11
Views
7K
Robert-Jan

Hands-On With The New Omega Speedmaster Calibre 321 In Canopus Gold (Live Pictures)

Robert-Jan Modern Omega Watches
Trog
Trog
Posts
40
Views
11K
Travelller

Speedmaster Caliber 321 "Ed White" - A Pictorial Review

Travelller Omega Watch Reviews
Evitzee
Evitzee
Posts
122
Views
52K
cvalue13

Hot Takes: Speedmaster Moonwatch 321 “Ed White”/“Cernan” in Stainless Steel (2020) Review

cvalue13 Omega Watch Reviews
frazierspa
frazierspa
Posts
43
Views
38K