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Bernardini 100 UG event in Milano

Dre
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Great work @LouS !!

LouS LouS
At this point, it should surprise no-one that Ref 224100 is NOT a Medico-Compax reference, but a UNi-Compax one.
WW0072.MDXUGSS.950_2.jpg WW0072.MDXUGSS.950_3.jpg

Just have to correct you on this one though, while I can't speak on the originality of that particular watch, ref 224100 was also used in Medico-Compax based on this catalogue screen shot,
IMG_0662.jpg IMG_0663.jpg
 
LouS
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Very good. My impression was based on my own database, which has 14 examples of the 224100, of which only the one currently on sale a Medico-Compax. Can we have more of that catalog?
 
NT931
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@LouS thanks for an incredibly educational thread 👍

Your expertise is incredible
tenor.gif

We should make this thread a sticky!
 
rolokr
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LouS LouS
Does anyone have precedent for white writing on a gilt dial in the UG repertoire?

WW0140.CPXUGSS.950_2.jpg
This one looks pretty good !
 
Dre
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LouS LouS
Very good. My impression was based on my own database, which has 14 examples of the 224100, of which only the one currently on sale a Medico-Compax. Can we have more of that catalog?

Sala page 475.
 
Mlafra
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Guys, even though I completely agree with the vast majority of the comments here (starting from the fact that I also believe that the prices are way higher than market prices and that many of the pieces have serious issues), for the Medico Compaxes I beg to disagree somewhat: many Medico Compaxes were not necessarily born like that, but legitimately so.
Is known that UG allowed his customers to chose dials and hands configurations, hence it is really hard sometime to be 100% that a watch is just unusual as oppose to a Franken. It could be that it was the choice of a specific client. This is even more true with Medico Compaxes: I would go as far as saying that ANY Compax or even more so Uni-Compax reference COULD be a Medico Compax if the client chose so. There was nothing stopping him from doing so. A client could also retrospectively "change" a Uni-Compax or Compax into a Medico for example at a service: this would be a "genuine" transformation and this is often the case when you see hour and minutes hands that are too long for the Medico dial. Then clearly there are also the less legitimate cases where the dial has been indeed put on there very recently.
All of this just to say that when it comes to Medico is a real mine-field and that if there is a type of dial that should allow more flexibility it is this one. I even know Italian collector that do not touch Medicos not even with a stick just because they know they cannot know if the watch was born like that or not not even if they try hard...
 
Larry S
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Good point @Mlafra and a big reason why I am still without a medico.
 
LouS
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Mlafra Mlafra
This is even more true with Medico Compaxes: I would go as far as saying that ANY Compax or even more so Uni-Compax reference COULD be a Medico Compax if the client chose so.

Except that, if one keeps a database, one sees quickly that this is simply not the way it works. Some references can be Medico-Compaxes and some simply are not. The Medico-Compaxes are restricted to a relatively small number of references. Of course, a database can never be complete (and is always growing), but the data is a pretty good indication of how UG worked.

Point two is that some of these Medico-Compax dials (and not just Medico-Compax) were available on line from a Swiss source until they sold out about a year ago. Then, watches with that dial began to appear in auctions. I'm speaking specifically of these dials:

WW0151.MDXUGYG.940_5.jpg WW0109.MDXUGYG.950_2.jpg
 
valjoux72
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Holy macaroni,

I wasn´t aware that my initial post would be followed by such a deep discussion of the watches.
Lous knowledge really is incredible, it helps a lot to get better educated and sharpen the view for upcoming additions...
Many thanks for sharing your knowledge here!
To be honest I´m a bit shocked that there are so many understandable concerns about the watches. What a mixture of cases and dials...
I always have a strange feeling when I see "to good to be true" dials on watches which are +- 80 years old...
Especailly if you know that there were no good working seals against humidity and dust in these days.

Fortunately/unfortunately the prices for watches in "collector grade" are usually to high for me. But that´s OK, as the more "beaten up" watches are often looking better on the wrist imho...
 
Mlafra
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LouS LouS
Except that, if one keeps a database, one sees quickly that this is simply not the way it works. Some references can be Medico-Compaxes and some simply are not. The Medico-Compaxes are restricted to a relatively small number of references. Of course, a database can never be complete (and is always growing), but the data is a pretty good indication of how UG worked.

Point two is that some of these Medico-Compax dials (and not just Medico-Compax) were available on line from a Swiss source until they sold out about a year ago. Then, watches with that dial began to appear in auctions. I'm speaking specifically of these dials:

WW0151.MDXUGYG.940_5.jpg WW0109.MDXUGYG.950_2.jpg
I completely agree on your point 2: I am aware of those dials and those 2 watches shown are most likely part of these. But how can you be 100% sure this is the case? Can't it be that the first owner of those watches at some point in their lives decided to service them and have the dial updated by UG itself with a Medico one? In the case of these 2 specific watches I tend to agree with you, the dials were most likely replaced recently, but one cannot simply state this with 100% certainty, in the same way instead for instance you can say that Space Compax has a fake case or some watches blatant redials.
I am not defending anyone here, I am just saying that on some things we can be dogmatic and certain and on some other you can reason by probabilities, but not on hard statements. That's all.
Hence why I don't agree on the first part of your sentence: until an official UG document appears that shows that the only allowed references for Medico Compaxes are XYZ I remain of the opinion that as long as a Medico dial is original (as opposed to reprinted) and for looks it could date consistently with the serial of the watch, it could be that it is correct for that watch.
 
LouS
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Mlafra Mlafra
I completely agree on your point 2: I am aware of those dials and those 2 watches shown are most likely part of these. But how can you be 100% sure this is the case? Can't it be that the first owner of those watches at some point in their lives decided to service them and have the dial updated by UG itself with a Medico one?

I'm not sure - I can't be, as you observe - but we rarely get to make decisions with the luxury of complete data. We just get the best information possible and act on it.

It may be correct to assume that anything is possible, but I bet you buy some stinkers if that's the principle at work. It's a question of philosophy, if you like. I simply prefer the information I have to possibilities and speculations.
 
T
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It's quite a risk declaring a watch is forgery basing this opinion on a database of 14 samples..
 
LouS
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T themouse
It's quite a risk declaring a watch is forgery basing this opinion on a database of 14 samples..

Ah, friend mouse ! Wondering if you were still along on the ride. I recall you were the one headed to Bernardini with a credit card. I wonder who is taking the greater risk😉

One certainly has to keep the mind open for new information, and rely on the collective hive mind of the forum - like @Dre's catalog observation above.

T themouse
What is the problem with this watch?

https://omegaforums.net/threads/the-grammar-of-compax.31334/
 
jumpingsecond
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It's an interesting question- But with the sky high asking prices in mind- which is the greater risk- assurance of authenticity or possibility of inauthenticity??
 
T
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LouS LouS
Ah, friend mouse ! Wondering if you were still along on the ride. I recall you were the one headed to Bernardini with a credit card. I wonder who is taking the greater risk😉

One certainly has to keep the mind open for new information, and rely on the collective hive mind of the forum - like @Dre's catalog observation above.



https://omegaforums.net/threads/the-grammar-of-compax.31334/
I was doing my home works!
 
ELV web
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T themouse
I was doing my home works!
Yep and first assignment just completed I believed, distinguishing the different prefix to “compax”. Plenty of work to be done before parting with hard earn money on your plastics man.
 
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