Bernardini 100 UG event in Milano

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Thanks Lou’s, we are left with this very forum when it comes to assess originality, the time we could trust reputable dealers seems to be long gone. When I see a well documented fake sub for sale at that price, a sad and greedy world we live in...
 
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Does anyone have precedent for white writing on a gilt dial in the UG repertoire?


When browsing the catalog, this one really ruined my appetite to go any further. The dial looks fake.
The negroni factor at this event must’ve been heavy... heavy like the hand that polished that poor case.
 
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Has anyone ever seen a Compax with this low of a case number? It's a few tens of thousands lower than I have ever seen.
I suspect the dial might be a bit later but I think such a serial number on a Compax is indeed correct and it probably is one of the very first Compax, from 1937/1938. Also those hands and even more subdial hands shape are consistent with UGs around that serial number.
I can say this because I own a UG ConTax (not Compax, the very first Compaxes were actually called Contax and they were the very very first chronos ever with an hour counter ever): Contaxes are very rare but when they do appear they all have low 600k serial numbers, like around 605xxx-620xxx, hence I guess a 657xxx could well makse sense for an early Compax.
 
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Do we think this dial is original to the case? Everyone remembers the 22410 fiasco https://omegaforums.net/threads/universal-geneve-“prototype”-compax.53198/ Do we know any more than we did earlier this year about which cases these dials belong in?

I beleive these kind of dials were protptypes dials meant for gold cases. BUT I have only seen them mounted on Spillman steel cases. Hard to say, also becasue apparently they came into 2 different sizes some one saying that smaller ones were meant for gold cases but the bigger ones for steel water proof ones....hard to say if this is true or not)
 
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Does anyone have precedent for white writing on a gilt dial in the UG repertoire?

I have never personally ever seen one like this, but to be honest it looks like it could be an original dial.... then again stress on "could" as there is a series of redials in the watches presented hence it could also well be that this adds to the list....
 
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I beleive these kind of dials were protptypes dials meant for gold cases. BUT I have only seen them mounted on Spillman steel cases. Hard to say, also becasue apparently they came into 2 different sizes some one saying that smaller ones were meant for gold cases but the bigger ones for steel water proof ones....hard to say if this is true or not)
must be prototypes of a very early stage where the printing process was still faulty...
 
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While I agree much of the pricing to “us” is on the high side, I don’t think there’s any reason for them to not ask those prices. If someone is willing to pay those prices, then common sense tells you you should be setting those prices.The only risk they have is when their customers attempt to resell the watch after a year or two, and realize it’s only worth maybe 2/3 of the value... but at the same time in 1-2 years the watch could very well be worth 30% more from where it is today, so all’s well. And if in that resale process their customers discover the dial is redone...? Well it’s easy for Bernardini to say ‘I’ll take it back for what you paid for it’. But how many of their clientele do that?

And in reply to some comments here... just because they can sell a watch for 15k eur doesn’t mean we can sell the same watch, in exact or maybe even better condition, for the same price. They’ve cultivated a set of clientele and built up some reputation over the past 10-15 years, which we haven't. That certainly has some monetary value that they’re attempting to capitalize here (whether it’s deserved is another question, but it certainly exists).
 
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I would like to see their sales numbers, and actually see how many were sold at these inflated prices ?
 
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While I agree much of the pricing to “us” is on the high side, I don’t think there’s any reason for them to not ask those prices. If someone is willing to pay those prices, then common sense tells you you should be setting those prices.The only risk they have is when their customers attempt to resell the watch after a year or two, and realize it’s only worth maybe 2/3 of the value... but at the same time in 1-2 years the watch could very well be worth 30% more from where it is today, so all’s well. And if in that resale process their customers discover the dial is redone...? Well it’s easy for Bernardini to say ‘I’ll take it back for what you paid for it’. But how many of their clientele do that?

And in reply to some comments here... just because they can sell a watch for 15k eur doesn’t mean we can sell the same watch, in exact or maybe even better condition, for the same price. They’ve cultivated a set of clientele and built up some reputation over the past 10-15 years, which we haven't. That certainly has some monetary value that they’re attempting to capitalize here (whether it’s deserved is another question, but it certainly exists).
All I can say if they are pushing the market prices up for UG I'm all for it !!!!!
 
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i find it interesting they don't have any of the more easily identifiable or provable frankens in the sale like a nina, evil nina, clapton etc. . .just the old ones where it takes real detective work to ferret out the answers
 
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i find it interesting they don't have any of the more easily identifiable or provable frankens in the sale like a nina, evil nina, clapton etc. . .just the old ones where it takes real detective work to ferret out the answers

Well, they've got three bogus Polerouter Subs and a Space Compax. I don't think they are being all that cagey.
 
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Dato-Compax is the same one they had in May 2016, now EUR 4000 more expensive at EUR 16000. It is also pictured in Sala, p 326. NOte the Portuguese punch mark on the 11 o'clock lug

Nov 2017


May 2016
 
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Here's an egregious forgery - Medico-Compax ref 12494. The Ref 12494 is a Compax reference, not a Medico-Compax reference, most of which went to the Brazilian armed forces (Exército Brasileiro or the Forca Aerea Brasileira, surely a flashy bunch with their gold timepieces). Sure enough, there is an Exército Brasileiro marking on the back ("E.B."). The Medico-Compax dial was from a batch available on line until last year. These have been turning up at various auctions, and I happen to have two spare dials in my drawer.

 
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Well, they've got three bogus Polerouter Subs and a Space Compax. I don't think they are being all that cagey.

fair point!!! 😀😀
 
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Here's an egregious forgery - Medico-Compax ref 12494. The Ref 12494 is a Compax reference, not a Medico-Compax reference, most of which went to the Brazilian armed forces (Exército Brasileiro or the Forca Aerea Brasileira, surely a flashy bunch with their gold timepieces). Sure enough, there is an Exército Brasileiro marking on the back ("E.B."). The Medico-Compax dial was from a batch available on line until last year. These have been turning up at various auctions, and I happen to have two spare dials in my drawer.


Seems to be inspired by this 12494 EB sold in 2013 with blatant redial 😗
image.aspx
 
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And the crap keeps coming. Here's a Medico-Compax with a case number about 600,000 earlier than any Medico-Compax documented anywhere else - about 15 years before the model line was introduced. This one is SOLD!

 
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Here's one I actually want to believe is real. If it isn't, UG should have made it. It's a Valjoux 22 (UG cal 140) Medico-Compax in a Thunderbird case (ref 124146, a case that usually accomodates a UG cal 285). The reference and case numbers are conveniently obliterated. Could it be?


View attachment 464417
 
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cheers detective @LouS 👍👍. this investigation continues to be an eye opening experience at least for me. the complexity of this sales strategy is troublesome... caveat emptor the moral of the story once again.
 
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At this point, it should surprise no-one that Ref 224100 is NOT a Medico-Compax reference, but a UNi-Compax one.
 
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The Medico-Compax is the first model line in which Bernardini does not have a single legitimate model. 0%.

Still not half way through the inventory. Done for the day though. I'm going to take off the hip waders and hit the showers.