bergeon tools having rust?

[AdamVT227]

Hi , i the past few months i am learning watchmaking and on some tools i wend the extra mile and bought the more expensive bergeon tools .
i bought all of my tools online on cousins uk .
sadly i am extremely disappointed with the quality of the bergeon tools and i wanted to know if you had similar experience .
all of my bergeon tools are 1-2 months old and gaining rust , i have added some photos .

I did buff out the rust on the movement holder because after it gained a little it stopped opening and closing freely but a week later it is very rusty again .

the screwdriver sharpener holder has a small screw that holds the pieces together and its very loose , if you want to use it facing down it is quickly grinding against the stone .

the hand removal tool was very expensive , somewhat around 150 dollars and it has gained rust quickly , i thought to myself that those kind of tools can last you a lifetime if you take good care of them but in my situation it looks like i have only a few months left and that is with a positive attitude .

I would like to hear your opinions on this matter ( i haven’t contacted cousins yet )

 

[sheepdoll]

I spilled some Alum on some tools. Where the water landed there was rust spots. Now I do the pickling away from the bench.

I have also heard that sulfur gasses like what come from volcanoes can lead to things rusting. Even 100s of miles (km) away. This has been witnessed with the recent Iceland eruptions, which have caused things in London to rust more quickly when there are large outbreaks of gasses.

My guess would be there is something in the air what is promoting the rust. Is there a combustion source or industrial factory nearby? A source of high humidity?

Items in the unheated garage and work shed are also prone to rust. My CNC got rust as well as some of my woodworking tools. This can be due I am told to condensation from temperature swings.

Coating such things with a light oil was recommended, which I now do from time to time. Especially after cleaning the rust.

Watch factories are laboratory clean and tend to smell of disinfectant, almost like a hospital. They are also well heated in the winter. Was really weird being in Switzerland when it was like 35 to 40C. The thick stone walls soak up the heat. On the other hand it is that hot here today on the west coast. No real humidity here though.

The higher quality the steel, the more it seems to be prone to rust (apart from stainless.)

Of course when you want the broken screw to come out it resists for as long as it can.

 

[josiahg52]

What are they made of? Carbon steel will rust pretty easily depending on environment. Stainless can corrode or oxidize if the wrong liquid or substance gets on it and in extreme conditions. Very small, microscopic pieces of embedded tool steel left over from manufacturing, finishing, honing, etc. of stainless tools and items can show corrosion. Passivation is a process often used to prevent this type of surface defect.

 

[STANDY]

Will leave it to @Archer to advise about watch making tools.

Carbon steel rusts. Store your tools in a container with some silica gel things is my advice.

 

[Canuck]

Humid environment? Sweaty hands?

 

[Ron_W]

I have had this happen with screwdriver tips from an Ebay seller. Within a few months half the set was rusting and i kept them in the plastic box they came in, in a dry drawer, and i wear finger cods when working on stuff. The answer from the ( french ) Ebay seller when i complained ;

Nieuw bericht van: kd89fr (19,615)
hello
the blades are blued steel so easily rusty if they are in a damp place, or after being touched with the fingers
we have stainless steel and carbon steel blades available and compatible
thank you cyril
venus-diffusionpointcom

Reageren

Blueing is also form of rust protection afaik so a silly response, and he did not want to sent replacement tips. When i contacted the producer Beco tech in Germany they were kind enough to set me some replacement sets and hopefully repremanded the seller. Not buying from him again.

Still dont know what caused the rust, but these items could have been in ( damp ) storage conditions for a long time before they reached me, and yours come from one of the dampiest countries in the world . but still you should have non-rusting equipment. You have to file a complaint before 6 months of warranty have passe d otherwise you will have to proof it is their fault/short coming.

 

[Archer]

You must be in very humid environment. I do nothing to specifically guard against rust on my watchmaking tools, and have never experienced that sort of rusting on any of them before. What I do is control the humidity in the environment - it's a part of watchmaking, because as much as that rust is unsightly on tools, it's very bad for watch movements...

 

[AdamVT227]

Archer

You must be in very humid environment. I do nothing to specifically guard against rust on my watchmaking tools, and have never experienced that sort of rusting on any of them before. What I do is control the humidity in the environment - it's a part of watchmaking, because as much as that rust is unsightly on tools, it's very bad for watch movements...

the tools are stored in a closet inside my home , i do live in a city which is usually between 60%-90% humidity and about 1 km from the coast line . but other items i own do not rust as fast or even at all so it is very weird to me .

i will ask a watchmaker friend of mine in my area .

 

[AdamVT227]

sheepdoll

I spilled some Alum on some tools. Where the water landed there was rust spots. Now I do the pickling away from the bench.

I have also heard that sulfur gasses like what come from volcanoes can lead to things rusting. Even 100s of miles (km) away. This has been witnessed with the recent Iceland eruptions, which have caused things in London to rust more quickly when there are large outbreaks of gasses.

My guess would be there is something in the air what is promoting the rust. Is there a combustion source or industrial factory nearby? A source of high humidity?

Items in the unheated garage and work shed are also prone to rust. My CNC got rust as well as some of my woodworking tools. This can be due I am told to condensation from temperature swings.

Coating such things with a light oil was recommended, which I now do from time to time. Especially after cleaning the rust.

Watch factories are laboratory clean and tend to smell of disinfectant, almost like a hospital. They are also well heated in the winter. Was really weird being in Switzerland when it was like 35 to 40C. The thick stone walls soak up the heat. On the other hand it is that hot here today on the west coast. No real humidity here though.

The higher quality the steel, the more it seems to be prone to rust (apart from stainless.)

Of course when you want the broken screw to come out it resists for as long as it can.

Hi , so i do live in a high humid and warm weather but other items of mine do not act like those tools , so i am a little lost here .

 

[AdamVT227]

josiahg52

What are they made of? Carbon steel will rust pretty easily depending on environment. Stainless can corrode or oxidize if the wrong liquid or substance gets on it and in extreme conditions. Very small, microscopic pieces of embedded tool steel left over from manufacturing, finishing, honing, etc. of stainless tools and items can show corrosion. Passivation is a process often used to prevent this type of surface defect.

Hi , this is the description of the hands removal tool -"Front part in hardened steel with notch to make easier the positioning. Mirror finished tips with anodized aluminum handles." the screwdriver tips are also hardened steel , as for the movement holder and oiler i do not know .

 

[AdamVT227]

STANDY

Will leave it to @Archer to advise about watch making tools.

Carbon steel rusts. Store your tools in a container with some silica gel things is my advice.

i will try to do so thx

 

[AdamVT227]

Ron_W

I have had this happen with screwdriver tips from an Ebay seller. Within a few months half the set was rusting and i kept them in the plastic box they came in, in a dry drawer, and i wear finger cods when working on stuff. The answer from the ( french ) Ebay seller when i complained ;

Nieuw bericht van: kd89fr (19,615)
hello
the blades are blued steel so easily rusty if they are in a damp place, or after being touched with the fingers
we have stainless steel and carbon steel blades available and compatible
thank you cyril
venus-diffusionpointcom

Reageren

Blueing is also form of rust protection afaik so a silly response, and he did not want to sent replacement tips. When i contacted the producer Beco tech in Germany they were kind enough to set me some replacement sets and hopefully repremanded the seller. Not buying from him again.

Still dont know what caused the rust, but these items could have been in ( damp ) storage conditions for a long time before they reached me, and yours come from one of the dampiest countries in the world . but still you should have non-rusting equipment. You have to file a complaint before 6 months of warranty have passe d otherwise you will have to proof it is their fault/short coming.

i will try and contact them to see what they would say on this issue .

 

[sheepdoll]

AdamVT227

Hi , so i do live in a high humid and warm weather but other items of mine do not act like those tools , so i am a little lost here .

Quality steel rusts as other have stated. You might check for other factors as mentioned like nearby industrial activity or other sources of air quality. Can you have your air quality monitored? I think Natural gas combustion also generates Nitrogen/Oxygen byproducts. Is there a source of sulfur nitrates? (which form a rotten egg smell) Note your hair teeth and fingernails contain sulfur (as do many flexible carbon products which are vulcanized rubber.) Could there be a source of old plastic or plastic bags about.?

Something in the tool box or container what could be out gassing? Old wellies or mkintoshes in the closet?

 

[josiahg52]

AdamVT227

Hi , this is the description of the hands removal tool -"Front part in hardened steel with notch to make easier the positioning. Mirror finished tips with anodized aluminum handles." the screwdriver tips are also hardened steel , as for the movement holder and oiler i do not know .

I'd guess from that description it's probably not stainless, probably a tool steel, high carbon type. Storage and environmental conditions matter the most.

 

[Davidt]

I have a few Bergeon tools and they’re generally (gently) tossed in a drawer with no special storage procedure or cleaning other than running under the cold tap and drying with a cloth periodically. Mine are several years old now and show no signs of corrosion whatsoever.

 

[AdamVT227]

sheepdoll

Quality steel rusts as other have stated. You might check for other factors as mentioned like nearby industrial activity or other sources of air quality. Can you have your air quality monitored? I think Natural gas combustion also generates Nitrogen/Oxygen byproducts. Is there a source of sulfur nitrates? (which form a rotten egg smell) Note your hair teeth and fingernails contain sulfur (as do many flexible carbon products which are vulcanized rubber.) Could there be a source of old plastic or plastic bags about.?

Something in the tool box or container what could be out gassing? Old wellies or mkintoshes in the closet?

there is a lot of construction nearby (housing , metro ) but no industrial activity . what makes me very confused is that only the bergeon tools are gaining rust everything else is perfectly fine . i can try to reposition the tools to a more sterile environment and check , but they all have rust now so i dont know how to revert it .
any idea on how to remove the rust and then i could check if it will appear again in a sterile environment ?

 

[AdamVT227]

Davidt

I have a few Bergeon tools and they’re generally (gently) tossed in a drawer with no special storage procedure or cleaning other than running under the cold tap and drying with a cloth periodically. Mine are several years old now and show no signs of corrosion whatsoever.

well thats what i was expecting for myself as well , i bought the bergeon tools so they will last a long time , maybe they are fake ? but i think cousins won’t sell fakes .

 

[Archer]

Do you have a means to measure the relative humidity in your work area? If not, you might want to get that so you know what's going on. Do you have a home with a controlled environment, so central heating and air conditioning?

In the summer, air conditioning not only cools the space, but takes out humidity, so you may need that if the level is too high.

 

[Pip]

AdamVT227

well thats what i was expecting for myself as well , i bought the bergeon tools so they will last a long time , maybe they are fake ? but i think cousins won’t sell fakes .

Cousins won't sell fakes (at least not knowingly). They've moved to new premises in the last couple of years so shouldn't be any issues there. I have bought loads from them and had no issues, although I do know someone who bought some parts that turned up rusty, that was a few years ago now, maybe pre covid?
And OP: Just as an aside - Cousins are known to be quite reactive to criticism, so if you do contact them be nice and polite or you may well find your account closed down without any recourse. They don't mess around with small customers.

 

[AdamVT227]

Archer

Do you have a means to measure the relative humidity in your work area? If not, you might want to get that so you know what's going on. Do you have a home with a controlled environment, so central heating and air conditioning?

In the summer, air conditioning not only cools the space, but takes out humidity, so you may need that if the level is too high.

i could buy a humidity measure device and check , i have an air conditioner in the living room but not in my work area .
i would say the humidity levels are high .
but the only thing that rusts is the Bergeon tools so im a bit baffled .