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Beautiful day to ride a bike!

gophishin
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I don't know what your budget is, so it's tough to say, but that wouldn't be enough of an upgrade, IMO. It's a similar age bike, group is probably pretty tired, and ride quality might be improved slightly over older aluminium, it's probably not night and day. To me, it seems like bikes depreciate a lot in the first 2-4 years, and after that they kind of retain value, which is where this most likely is - my point being that you can probably get something a lot newer/nicer for similar money.

Things I would look for (assuming a properly fitting bike) would be a much newer groupset without the externally routed cables from the (older Shimano) shifters, and maybe a tarmac or roubaix from 2010-2012 or the like. Heck, even the newer aluminum bikes ride much better than they did 10+ years ago. I also don't know what kind of riding you do and thus what kind of geometry you're seeking: race vs endurance or Tarmac vs Roubaix, Cannondale SuperSix vs Synapse, etc., so that might be something to consider as well.
 
styggpyggeno1
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gophishin gophishin
(assuming a properly fitting bike)

One note from an older guy - proper bike fit seems to have changed over the years. The "drop" on modern bikes are reaching comic proportions. The height difference between saddle and handlebars has increased as frames no longer are made in 1cm increments but in three sizes (normally) small, medium and large. People tend to choose or be recommended to choose a smaller frame - worsening the problem. Some of it can be remedied with an angled handlebar stem but the possibilitys are limited once the fork is cut. Handlebars in themselves are getting a shallower drop as per day... No wonder - no one can get into the drops anymore or otherwise. Suddenly you see another no-no more and more often - saddles tilting down in the front. Wonder why... Long rant...but you get the picture.

Example stolen from the net:

de-rosa-super-king-888-sr-bike-frameset-white.jpg

Bottom line. Our anatomy has not changed. The possibilities for a ergonomical set up of a modern racing bike has been limited by a new industry standard that is set up to cater for industrial needs of efficient manufacturing - not to fit the human anatomy.

Be aware of this when buying an modern bike (and that is the whole point of this post).

While I am ranting - if you are planning to do long distance racing - do not fall for the high profile rim conspiracy. Frames are getting stiffer and stiffer - giving a harsh ride and at the same time rims are getting a higher and higher profile. Is there a coincidence it has become "in" to run wider tires suddenly? Pair this with the above "drop problem" and of that following straight arm position - disaster. Elbows are supposed to be bent to soak up vibrations and bumbs. Again - the human body has not changed... It cannot take abuse for long periods of time. Need cushoning.

Over and out from old guy who believes everything was better before. OK - there has been some benefit in the area of derailleur systems (but only to a certain limit - which has to do with excessive wheel dish etc. - more about that some other time).

Oh - What is proper bike fit?

This:

eddy-merckx1.jpg
 
gophishin
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While I do agree with what you're saying, I think it should be clarified that those with poor fitting bikes is a different story, two different issues are being discussed. The design of the bikes today is very different, with sloping top tubes, shorter head tubes, and thus shallower drop bars. But, a properly fitting classic geo bike should result in the same reach and drop numbers, just in different proportions because of the design intentions. So yes, it's always important to make sure you're properly fit and riding the correct sized frame. And yes, there are a LOT of people riding an incorrect sized frame and/or poorly fitted bike. But that's not the fault of the modern design. Riders spend more time in the hoods now as well with modern shifters, so more drop is desired by some in that position. But, like I mentioned, a rider that is properly fit on a classic geo frame and a modern frame should result in the same drop and reach numbers. It's just on the vintage frame there will be less seatpost showing, taller headtube, and deeper drop bars.

Also, bike selection plays a lot into this. Companies like Trek often offer two different geos of the same frame, H1 or H2, to accommodate this issue with different head tube lengths, and most companies offer different frames with different geometries and intentions all together. As it pertains to that discussion, a Specialized Roubaix is probably going to be better for most recreational riders, and racers with less flexibility than a Tarmac. That doesn't mean a Roubaix can't be raced though.

And in the case of that horribly setup De Rosa above, yes, that's a bad fit and probably a frame that's too small judging by the amount of seatpost showing and the tall spacer stack. Tough to tell without knowing how the rider sits on it though.

That kind of jumped around a lot, but I thought it was important to clarify that a few issues are being discussed here.
 
styggpyggeno1
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Yes, I know - I got carried away a little. I, of course, know the frames should end up with the same geometry for the same rider. But as I watch modern bikes in reality I do see a trend and more and more often that should is not there. People are riding around on tilted saddles and with straight arms - on the "low" tops.

I get back to my bold sentence - be aware of this when buying a modern bike - with the addition - be extra careful to get yourself and it measured - and fitted for an allround classic ergonomic set up. And when buying a second hand bike - be aware that if fork is cut low - you have few options for adjustement.
 
gophishin
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styggpyggeno1 styggpyggeno1
be aware of this when buying a modern bike - with the addition - be extra careful to get yourself and it measured - and fitted for an allround classic ergonomic set up. And when buying a second hand bike - be aware that if fork is cut low - you have few options for adjustement.

👍! Yes, and your last points (that I underlined) are very good ones!
 
Hijak
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styggpyggeno1 styggpyggeno1
One note from an older guy - proper bike fit seems to have changed over the years. The "drop" on modern bikes are reaching comic proportions. The height difference between saddle and handlebars has increased as frames no longer are made in 1cm increments but in three sizes (normally) small, medium and large. People tend to choose or be recommended to choose a smaller frame - worsening the problem. Some of it can be remedied with an angled handlebar stem but the possibilitys are limited once the fork is cut. Handlebars in themselves are getting a shallower drop as per day... No wonder - no one can get into the drops anymore or otherwise. Suddenly you see another no-no more and more often - saddles tilting down in the front. Wonder why... Long rant...but you get the picture.

Example stolen from the net:

de-rosa-super-king-888-sr-bike-frameset-white.jpg

Bottom line. Our anatomy has not changed. The possibilities for a ergonomical set up of a modern racing bike has been limited by a new industry standard that is set up to cater for industrial needs of efficient manufacturing - not to fit the human anatomy.

Be aware of this when buying an modern bike (and that is the whole point of this post).

While I am ranting - if you are planning to do long distance racing - do not fall for the high profile rim conspiracy. Frames are getting stiffer and stiffer - giving a harsh ride and at the same time rims are getting a higher and higher profile. Is there a coincidence it has become "in" to run wider tires suddenly? Pair this with the above "drop problem" and of that following straight arm position - disaster. Elbows are supposed to be bent to soak up vibrations and bumbs. Again - the human body has not changed... It cannot take abuse for long periods of time. Need cushoning.

Over and out from old guy who believes everything was better before. OK - there has been some benefit in the area of derailleur systems (but only to a certain limit - which has to do with excessive wheel dish etc. - more about that some other time).

Oh - What is proper bike fit?

This:

eddy-merckx1.jpg
Here, here!👍 From another older biker.😀
 
Wetworks
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Picked up a Specialized Diverge and finally got a chance to ride it. Who'd have thought New Year's Eve in the NE would still allow for good riding weather?

IMG_3835_zpsrfa0eq0g.jpg
IMG_3838_zpsxjoqqgvc.jpg
IMG_3837_zpsppulmyyz.jpg
IMG_3839_zpssyzslx4p.jpg
 
Mad Dog
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We had 5 of the 14 masters team members out today...it was a bit nippy (but dry). Mad Dog is on the far left with his trusty 2010 Schwinn Sprint fixed gear (88 gear inches today since it was relatively flat)...good times! 👍

image.jpeg
 
Wetworks
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Got out on the Diverge again, knocked out a quick 20. Desire to ride > cold weather > looking like a crazy person.

IMG_3855_zpsy6rkggmx.jpg
 
dougiedude
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Mad Dog Mad Dog
We had 5 of the 14 masters team members out today...it was a bit nippy (but dry). Mad Dog is on the far left with his trusty 2010 Schwinn Sprint fixed gear (88 gear inches today since it was relatively flat)...good times! 👍

image.jpeg
Hey, Dog, where's YOUR beard?!?
 
Mad Dog
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dougiedude dougiedude
Hey, Dog, where's YOUR beard?!?
LOL...yeah, really...I'm on a masters road race team of old guy hipster beardos! Honestly, I wouldn't be able to hack the scruffy feeling...in addition, we aren't allowed to have beards at work...a beard prevents the emergency oxygen mask from obtaining a proper seal.
 
dougiedude
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Mad Dog Mad Dog
LOL...yeah, really...I'm on a masters road race team of old guy hipster beardos! Honestly, I wouldn't be able to hack the scruffy feeling...in addition, we aren't allowed to have beards at work...a beard prevents the emergency oxygen mask from obtaining a proper seal.

Yes, that makes all the sense!
We don't want our pilot to ever experience oxygen debt!

Ever had to pop on the mask? I suppose that would be a very rare occurrence!
 
Mad Dog
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dougiedude dougiedude
...Ever had to pop on the mask? I suppose that would be a very rare occurrence!
Well, yes...fairly often...but not in an emergency situation (yet). When the other pilot leaves the cockpit to do a #1 (or #2) and we are at or above FL 250 (25,000' MSL)...I am required to put on the mask (and use it).
 
flyingout
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Mad Dog Mad Dog
When the other pilot leaves the cockpit to do a #1 (or #2) and we are at or above FL 250 (25,000' MSL)...I am required to put on the mask (and use it).
Damn. They shouldn't have designed the ventilation from the lav directly into the cockpit.
 
barmy
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40 km, -5 Celsius, 25 kph wind gusting to 45 kph. Not snowing. Great day for a ride....😀
 
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