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Automotive Exceptionalism

MRC
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abrod520 abrod520
I know you like Lotus, so I'm just gonna say, "no comment" 馃槈

The last Lotus that used a bog-standard other make of engine was, to the best of my recollection the basic model Seven S4 with Ford 1600 Kent crossflow in 1971. Everything after has been tweaked to a greater or lesser extent. Lotus Carlton anyone?

They have said the same tweaking to Lotus responsiveness will happen with the Emira too. https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/lotus/emira/

I've had three cars with Ford 1500-based Twinks -- a great engine and Ford acknowledged that by using them in Cortinas and early high-end Escorts. Didn't Lotus and Ford win the Indy 500 with a Fairlane-based engine too? To be fair it was Ford who built that into a race winning motor.

Ford_Fairlane_sedan.jpg thf77245.jpg
 
MRC
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abrod520 abrod520
if you're looking for something useless why not just save money and garage space, and go way faster by getting a liter bike?

How about having fun not by going faster and as a bonus not getting banned from driving/riding on the road?

I've had a lot of fun driving flat-out in Citroen 2CV, which even at the limit won't attract attention unless you got its angle of dangle to the point where it flipped over, but my 1980s Mazda 323 could go fast enough to attract extremely unwelcome attention in modern times. Yup, with 60bhp, great little car! Tape the handbrake knob down and you have a Monte-Carlo Rally-winning Mini-Cooper S on snow 馃憤 My VFR750 (3/4 of your litre) could get me arrested instantly in any gear. Except in France, where I found the colour of my leathers closely matched those of the French police 馃槈
 
davy26
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Taking account of the thread title, I'm often mystified by posts here. Some of the mundane, unattractive cars we see tend me towards depression rather than stimulation! So here's something curvy - quite often an important element in 'good' porn:
cropAbarthDH.jpg
 
abrod520
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MRC MRC
How about having fun not by going faster and as a bonus not getting banned from driving/riding on the road?

I've had a lot of fun driving flat-out in Citroen 2CV, which even at the limit won't attract attention unless you got its angle of dangle to the point where it flipped over, but my 1980s Mazda 323 could go fast enough to attract extremely unwelcome attention in modern times. Yup, with 60bhp, great little car! Tape the handbrake knob down and you have a Monte-Carlo Rally-winning Mini-Cooper S on snow 馃憤 My VFR750 (3/4 of your litre) could get me arrested instantly in any gear. Except in France, where I found the colour of my leathers closely matched those of the French police 馃槈

Yeah, but the same could be said for a Seven or an Elise or Atom etc... I thought we were discussing track work anyway though
 
Northernman
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abrod520 abrod520
Eh I prefer my sports cars to have sports car engines, not family SUV engines
As in fragile and expensive to maintain, or solid and reliable?

Are you thinking in the same manner when it comes to watch calibers? Not wanting a Patek chonograph just because the base caliber has also been used in hum-drum basic chronographs from Omega, Tissot and Lemania?

I do admire the engines from Ferrari and Porsche, but a sportscar is a total package, and I think putting ones nose up, just because the base-engine is also used in other application, is a bit - let's say - ill informed.

Jay Leno is quite happy with his "Camry".....

Cheers!
 
abrod520
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Northernman Northernman
As in fragile and expensive to maintain, or solid and reliable?

I mean, you're talking to a guy who has an S2000... once you look beyond the Brits, you quickly learn that true sports car powerplants don't automatically mean fragility or lackluster reliability. (And in the case of the Honda, quite cheap to maintain as well!)

And that conversely, family-car engines aren't always solid and reliable - like the Nissan VQ35...

Northernman Northernman
I think putting ones nose up, just because the base-engine is also used in other application, is a bit - let's say - ill informed.

I mean, "also used in other application" is not the same thing as "primarily intended for sedate family cruising", and to use your watch caliber example I think that paying $100k for a Camry-engined car is a lot like buying a $10,000 watch with an ETA 2892. Sure it's reliable and proven but at a certain level, you just expect, well, better.
 
Northernman
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abrod520 abrod520
I mean, you're talking to a guy who has an S2000... once you look beyond the Brits, you quickly learn that true sports car powerplants don't automatically mean fragility or lackluster reliability. (And in the case of the Honda, quite cheap to maintain as well!)

And that conversely, family-car engines aren't always solid and reliable - like the Nissan VQ35...



I mean, "also used in other application" is not the same thing as "primarily intended for sedate family cruising", and to use your watch caliber example I think that paying $100k for a Camry-engined car is a lot like buying a $10,000 watch with an ETA 2892. Sure it's reliable and proven but at a certain level, you just expect, well, better.

I am afraid you are missing the point.
And if you belive the Toyo derived Lotus V6 engine is a "family car engine", then I will end the debate from my side right here.
The whole point is that, rather than build on something exotic, you take something well engineered, and improve it, you end up with something very different. Like a CH27 derived Patek, or a gem of a lightweight, supercharged V6.

BTW: Love a good S2000. They are truly fantastic little sportscars!
 
vbrad26
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Tony C. Tony C.
gsteherf.png

Lol at first I was like wow what an awesome picture.
Then I realized it was from a video game hah.
Still cool though...
 
abrod520
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Northernman Northernman
I am afraid you are missing the point.
And if you belive the Toyo derived Lotus V6 engine is a "family car engine", then I will end the debate from my side right here.
The whole point is that, rather than build on something exotic, you take something well engineered, and improve it, you end up with something very different. Like a CH27 derived Patek, or a gem of a lightweight, supercharged V6.

BTW: Love a good S2000. They are truly fantastic little sportscars!

I'm of course not saying it's directly dropped in from a Camry. But when it's more expensive than its rivals with bespoke engines, I'm just left wondering why. It'd be a totally different story if it were 30% less expensive - then, you'd clearly be benefiting from the fact that the development budget went into everything else.

It's like the new TAG Monaco in titanium. Yeah it's cool and pretty, but they're asking $8k for a watch with a Sellita base movement and that kind of money can get you into an El Primero or lots of other really well-engineered watches.

As for the S2000, I'm frankly torn - it's an absolutely wonderful car, but as I sit here suffering from yet another sunburn I can't help but want something with a closed top. (Top up is just not an option!)
 
Northernman
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abrod520 abrod520
I'm of course not saying it's directly dropped in from a Camry. But when it's more expensive than its rivals with bespoke engines, I'm just left wondering why. It'd be a totally different story if it were 30% less expensive - then, you'd clearly be benefiting from the fact that the development budget went into everything else.

It's like the new TAG Monaco in titanium. Yeah it's cool and pretty, but they're asking $8k for a watch with a Sellita base movement and that kind of money can get you into an El Primero or lots of other really well-engineered watches.

As for the S2000, I'm frankly torn - it's an absolutely wonderful car, but as I sit here suffering from yet another sunburn I can't help but want something with a closed top. (Top up is just not an option!)
Where I am sitting, a sunburn is on the "most wanted" list of much of the population! 馃榾
 
arturo7
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Northernman Northernman
Can鈥檛 help but love an old Unimog!

Sometimes I'm tempted to buy a farm just to have a reason to own one.
 
vbrad26
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I live in an area that is prone to flooding so, like, I kinda NEED one.
At least that is what I keep trying to tell the wife.
 
Twocats
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Pierre1333 Pierre1333
Chriseor neon. Not often seen in Belgium. If I'm not mistaken they're boring
the reg makes it very interesting 馃榾
 
Pierre1333
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Chriseor neon. Not often seen in Belgium. If I'm not mistake they're boring
Twocats Twocats
the reg makes it very interesting 馃榾
Saw a Lancia Thema with a Maserati engine, they're Chrysler's too...uwanna know the reg? Blowoff. My all-time favourite sticker on a skyline is : I love gay porn. Im sorry, you have kids, better not show them this
Edited:
 
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