Authenticity of a black dial seamaster deville

la_lusigne · Nov 5, 2020

Hello,

I would like to have your opinion on this seamaster deville, especially on the dial.
This is a seamaster deville cal.610. To me every part is original except the Crystal without the omega logo stamped on the center.
I don’t see any alarming sign regarding the dial, minute markers are consistent, writing is smooth and there are tritium plots but I might be wrong.

Thanks

Passover · Nov 5, 2020

Do you have a focussed straight on picture?

I'm sceptic about this erea how this 6 marker is positioned and the positions of the minute markers

Lets see what the pros say! 😀

Caliber561 · Nov 5, 2020

Well, there are a number of issues:

- White printing on a black dial (printing should be gilt silver)
- Serifs seem to be missing from the script, but it's hard to tell bc of how blurry the shots are.
- Matte black paint (black dials ought to be gloss if no patina/deterioration)
- Minute markers are not consistent (they ought to be farther out, aligned with the hour ends of the hour indices)
- Early faceted cardinal indices aren't found with "T Swiss Made T" markings (Should be Swiss made only)
- Case looks like it might be for an automatic De Ville, but you can only go so far with depth perception. Do you have a side-shot of the case?
- The profile of the second hand is soft, and the profile of the hour and minute hands seems off, suggesting that the handset is probably a service or aftermarket replacement.
- The case is extremely soft, suggesting that it has been aggressively polished in the past.

In my opinion, it's not worth $200.

la_lusigne · Nov 5, 2020

Passover
Do you have a focussed straight on picture?

I'm sceptic about this erea how this 6 marker is positioned and the positions of the minute markers

Lets see what the pros say! 😀

Thanks for your answer !
I do have a straight picture, here it is

la_lusigne · Nov 5, 2020

Caliber561
Well, there are a number of issues:

- White printing on a black dial (printing should be gilt silver)
- Serifs seem to be missing from the script, but it's hard to tell bc of how blurry the shots are.
- Matte black paint (black dials ought to be gloss if no patina/deterioration)
- Minute markers are not consistent (they ought to be farther out, aligned with the hour ends of the hour indices)
- Early faceted cardinal indices aren't found with "T Swiss Made T" markings (Should be Swiss made only)
- Case looks like it might be for an automatic De Ville, but you can only go so far with depth perception. Do you have a side-shot of the case?
- The profile of the second hand is soft, and the profile of the hour and minute hands seems off, suggesting that the handset is probably a service or aftermarket replacement.
- The case is extremely soft, suggesting that it has been aggressively polished in the past.

In my opinion, it's not worth $200.

Thanks for your input ! I am not familiar with the Seamaster DeVille line

wilderbeast · Nov 5, 2020

I’m not an expert and it seems the issues have already been eloquently explained, but I think you are right to question here with an example before buying.

Black dialled SMDVs in good condition are more often than not redials, and original examples in good enough condition for smart wear are quite rare. This is largely down to the “Don Draper effect, whereby the black dialled SMDV has risen in popularity for its use in Mad Men (where DD apparently wears a redialled watch anyway!).

If you are interested in this line, then doing due diligence is essential!

mrbreen · Nov 5, 2020

I think @Caliber561 pretty much summed up everything. Another red flag: I’d be very surprised to see a dial in that condition with such a patinated date wheel. Redial IMO

Hnansen · Nov 5, 2020

Polished and redialed 😀

la_lusigne · Nov 5, 2020

Thank you very much for your insights, I was going the wrong path with this watch 👎

ed123 · Nov 5, 2020

This dissection has been extremely helpful! My partner has succumbed to the "Don Draper" effect and I've been studying up on a genuine alternative for his birthday. Vintage Omegas are so beautiful but I'm learning fast that black dials in great condition are fairly uncommon.

Shabbaz · Nov 5, 2020

Redial

Shabbaz · Nov 5, 2020

ed123
but I'm learning fast that black dials in great condition are fairly uncommon.

Black dials in mediocre condition are uncommon as well.. 😉

JwRosenthal · Nov 5, 2020

la_lusigne
Thank you very much for your insights, I was going the wrong path with this watch 👎

These threads are always helpful for others to learn so glad you posted it.

JwRosenthal · Nov 5, 2020

ed123
This dissection has been extremely helpful! My partner has succumbed to the "Don Draper" effect and I've been studying up on a genuine alternative for his birthday. Vintage Omegas are so beautiful but I'm learning fast that black dials in great condition are fairly uncommon.

I hate to say it, but you would have an easier time finding a vintage Rolex Oyster or Datejust with a black dial than a Seamaster (although at double the price).
I think I have only seen less than 1/2 dozen real ones pop up in the last few years. Some of the black dialed fantasy Seamaster we see are attractive (I do not believe there was ever a black cross-hair Deville), and if your partner wants one and is aware that they are a contrivance, then I don’t see a problem with you getting him one. But I would not pay a premium for it over an original silver dialed watch as it is not a collector piece at that point.

ed123 · Nov 5, 2020

Yes I think you may be right. I'm looking at a vintage Tudor Prince Oysterdate now as an alternative (albeit a more expensive one). I'm even looking at a brand new Junghans watch that meets the same specifications.

The problem for me is that all the fantasy redials don't appear to be worth it value-wise. This is especially true now having looked into genuine vintage watches. To get him the "Omega Seamaster Deville black dial, cross-hair" in immaculate condition would feel like I was buying him a toy. No offence meant to anyone who is interested in doing so!! Just my humble opinion having been a member for a mere matter of months now.

Shabbaz · Nov 5, 2020

ed123
I'm looking at a vintage Tudor Prince Oysterdate now as an alternative (albeit a more expensive one).

Something like this?

JwRosenthal · Nov 5, 2020

ed123
Yes I think you may be right. I'm looking at a vintage Tudor Prince Oysterdate now as an alternative (albeit a more expensive one). I'm even looking at a brand new Junghans watch that meets the same specifications.

The problem for me is that all the fantasy redials don't appear to be worth it value-wise. This is especially true now having looked into genuine vintage watches. To get him the "Omega Seamaster Deville black dial, cross-hair" in immaculate condition would feel like I was buying him a toy. No offence meant to anyone who is interested in doing so!! Just my humble opinion having been a member for a mere matter of months now.

Tudor prince would be a great alternative, and they aren’t crazy priced compared to a black dialed Seamaster- but avoid dealers who jack up the price. Another one is the older Rolex Airkings which came commonly with black dials. Just watch for fakes and Frankens on the Tudor- lots of scary ones out there. The 5500- and 14000 airkings seem to be reliably original as I don’t think there is much market for fakes on those.

JwRosenthal · Nov 5, 2020

Some food for thought-

Don Draper also wore an Airking, although they used a much later model than would have been apporiate for the era- I don’t think it was a mistake considering how attentive they were to details- more like product placement.

wilderbeast · Nov 5, 2020

JwRosenthal
Tudor prince would be a great alternative, and they aren’t crazy priced compared to a black dialed Seamaster- but avoid dealers who jack up the price. Another one is the older Rolex Airkings which came commonly with black dials. Just watch for fakes and Frankens on the Tudor- lots of scary ones out there. The 5500- and 14000 airkings seem to be reliably original as I don’t think there is much market for fakes on those.

Roger Sterling wore a Tudor Oyster Prince...

JwRosenthal · Nov 5, 2020

wilderbeast
Roger Sterling wore a Tudor Oyster Prince...

Oh yes he did- tuxedo dial- an absolute stunner. Those aren’t crazy price when you find a real one.

Authenticity of a black dial seamaster deville

la_lusigne

Passover

Caliber561

la_lusigne

la_lusigne

wilderbeast

mrbreen

Hnansen

la_lusigne

ed123

Shabbaz

Shabbaz

JwRosenthal

JwRosenthal

ed123

Shabbaz

JwRosenthal

JwRosenthal

wilderbeast

JwRosenthal

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