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kaplan
·Some even have portraits on dials
As a vintage Omega collector how do you feel about Omega / Swatch Group?
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Archer
··Omega Qualified Watchmaker
Well, if these were done after they left the factory, it would make perfect sense that the Extract doesn’t mention it. It would be very problematic if they were putting stuff on the extract that is from a photo of the dial, rather than what is in their actual records...
To me, this is why Omega asking for photos is so problematic...
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kaplan
·Not the case, they just don't detail dials anymore for regular customers as far as I know, you need to have a contact
Other than that, extracts say they are delivered to NK, so in this case the delivery location is enough to verify
I'm sad for my Arabic dial, it's kind of a deluxe model in white gold, Omega couldn't care less though, it's a very historically significant watch, they didn't show 1% of 1% of the interest Longines representatives showed for a regular pocketwatch
Other than that, extracts say they are delivered to NK, so in this case the delivery location is enough to verify
I'm sad for my Arabic dial, it's kind of a deluxe model in white gold, Omega couldn't care less though, it's a very historically significant watch, they didn't show 1% of 1% of the interest Longines representatives showed for a regular pocketwatch
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerNot the case, they just don't detail dials anymore for regular customers as far as I know, you need to have a contact
Other than that, extracts say they are delivered to NK, so in this case the delivery location is enough to verify
I'm sad for my Arabic dial, it's kind of a deluxe model in white gold, Omega couldn't care less though, it's a very historically significant watch, they didn't show 1% of 1% of the interest Longines representatives showed for a regular pocketwatch
So you are saying that Omega printed everything on these dials, and is withholding the information just for spite?
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watchyouwant
·Most of these were printed on locally. Like many Rolex as well. In your case of the North Korean Omega, I'd not want to know that a murderous Tyrant has gifted that to his obidient fellow Muderers ... Historically important ... Yes, maybe. Adolf Hitler was historically important as well. United the world against these Master Race Idiots. If I had a 1940's Hanhart watch and wanted to know, if his picture on the Dial was printed by Hanhart and get confirmation that it was genuine, I'd still put it in the Rubbish bin straight away. So, there is that....
Edited:
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tyrantlizardrex
·Since you asked about feelings… well, I don’t have any about the Swiss entity that made the often decades own watches I own.
They don’t bother me, and I don’t bother them.
I like that independent watchmakers can buy parts from them. But this doesn’t make me feel happy or sad - this is my expectation of a business that makes mechanical products, that it will supply parts for repairing them.
As a going concern, they are really of no interest to me either. I cannot afford to buy their watches. I could in the recent past. But the ongoing price hikes have put an end to that. Again, no feelings about this as, as of right now, they make nothing I want to own.
I guess if you feel they owe you something, you could be upset by their behaviour… but they don’t… so… maybe just let it go?
They don’t bother me, and I don’t bother them.
I like that independent watchmakers can buy parts from them. But this doesn’t make me feel happy or sad - this is my expectation of a business that makes mechanical products, that it will supply parts for repairing them.
As a going concern, they are really of no interest to me either. I cannot afford to buy their watches. I could in the recent past. But the ongoing price hikes have put an end to that. Again, no feelings about this as, as of right now, they make nothing I want to own.
I guess if you feel they owe you something, you could be upset by their behaviour… but they don’t… so… maybe just let it go?
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kaplan
·So you are saying that Omega printed everything on these dials, and is withholding the information just for spite?
Not for spite but rather an arbitrary decision not to detail dials for those who don't have inside connections. They 100% didn't print locally, because some dials are completely unique out of factory, they displaced the logo/star etc.. And in the past they issues certificates with dial information as well.
Can you give one example of a coloured dial being detailed on an EOA for a regular person in the recent years @Archer?
That's your opinion @watchyouwant - I personally don't have any opinions when it comes to collecting, my collection has all colors of the spectrum, from rainbows to the darkest of blacks. If you iterated your logic just a couple ticks further you'd need to put most your belongings into the rubbish bin straight away too, but I doubt you have the gall to do it 😀
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Watch my Whisky
·I have better things to worry about.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerNot for spite but rather an arbitrary decision not to detail dials for those who don't have inside connections. They 100% didn't print locally, because some dials are completely unique out of factory, they displaced the logo/star etc.. And in the past they issues certificates with dial information as well.
Can you give one example of a coloured dial being detailed on an EOA for a regular person in the recent years @Archer?
So it's a conspiracy then...okay...
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kaplan
·I don't know why you are acting this way as normally you are very logical
As far as I know, it's a known fact that Omega doesn't give dial detailing any more, I may be mistaken, can you share some extracts that they recently issues that includes dial detailing?
As far as I know, it's a known fact that Omega doesn't give dial detailing any more, I may be mistaken, can you share some extracts that they recently issues that includes dial detailing?
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Difeer
·That's strange. Why would they choose to withhold information if those were recorded in the archives?
Was there a line for the dial and was there any input for that? Or was it just completely omitted from the extract?
Was there a line for the dial and was there any input for that? Or was it just completely omitted from the extract?
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerI don't know why you are acting this way as normally you are very logical
As far as I know, it's a known fact that Omega doesn't give dial detailing any more, I may be mistaken, can you share some extracts that they recently issues that includes dial detailing?
I'm being logical...at least I believe I am. If what you say is true, it's a conspiracy to restrict this information to people like you, and only give it to people who are "connected." My question would be, for what purpose would Omega do this? And what direct evidence do you have of this?
To be clear, this is a testable thing. You need to find a watch with this special printing that someone has received an extract for that details everything, then submit it again (with the owner's permission) under your name and have it come back without that information - to me that is direct evidence of this conspiracy. Until then...what you have is an assumption that Omega is withholding data for you, and giving it to others, when it could simply be that information exists for some watches, and not for others. So...
More generally, I'm not saying the Extract process is perfect. IMO there shouldn't be any need for photos, or even any need for the case number. They should just get a serial number, look up the information in their records for that serial number, and tell you what it says...period. If that includes information about things printed on dials that's great, they should provide it. If no such information is in the files, then it should say nothing about the dial, and they certainly shouldn't be putting anything on an extract that is based on a photo of the watch in its current condition.
For me, when they asked for photos, it is no longer an extract - not sure what it is, but it's not that any longer.
Now people who want their special dials, special hands, etc. to be very valuable and really need this to somehow prove originality are upset with this situation - I understand that completely. People who just have a regular watch, and they want to know a little about its history, for them the process works just fine. So I while understand this is a real sticking point for you, it isn't for most people.
Cheers, Al
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kaplan
·That's strange. Why would they choose to withhold information if those were recorded in the archives?
Was there a line for the dial and was there any input for that? Or was it just completely omitted from the extract?
There's no lines or dial information for leader signatured watches any more, I've seen some new ones from others as well
I don't think they withhold information, but as an outsider to the process, it was my deduction that they only make judgement calls for certain people
I wondered where I got this impression, and I think it's a mix of ambient reading, the Speedmaster EOA issues, and this reply on this specific thread: https://omegaforums.net/threads/ext...-is-wrong-yes-correction-issued.150932/page-2
I think you might want to be more proactive if you are serious. I wouldn't expect highly connected people to voluntarily share their precious and carefully cultivated contacts with a stranger.
As a self correction, I see now that some extracts have dial information, and some don't, so they still seem to be issuing them
Indeed your assessment is true @Archer - I have some edge C-Case's, for example there are some diamond dial variations that are always very questionable, I want to learn from Omega whether they are original or not
My proposed solution would be a statement like:
"Dial information not recorded in our archives"
Otherwise, as a slight insider I'm very suspicious myself and question even my own watches even when I have some provenance information, I can't imagine what complete outsiders think
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerI don't think they withhold information, but as an outsider to the process, it was my deduction that they only make judgement calls for certain people
I wondered where I got this impression, and I think it's a mix of ambient reading, the Speedmaster EOA issues, and this reply on this specific thread: https://omegaforums.net/threads/ext...-is-wrong-yes-correction-issued.150932/page-2
You have a very different take away from that thread than I do. Several people stated they just used public contacts to get things straightened out, so the idea this can only be done with some inside connections doesn't appear to be true at all. In fact the OP in the thread got his resolved by using regular contacts from what I see there.
Thank you for the suggestion. I could not find contact information for the Omega Museum itself, but there is information for Cité du Temps in which the museum is housed. I will go ahead and contact them to see if they can explain (and ideally correct) the discrepancy. I don't have much confidence working through my Omega Boutique, but perhaps if I can reach someone at the archives directly, they can rectify the error.
Thanks for the tip. If the Omega museum doesn’t respond, I’ll try that next. I did get an acknowledgment from Cité du Temps, so that may turn out to be productive.
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kaplan
·It'll be hard for me to quote this, and to be honest I don't want to spend an hour to track the source, but there was a mention of asking a specific person to apply for an extract for the best result
I recall reading this on the forum, but it could have been a private discussion or read somewhere else
I don't think this is on topic or applies to me though, I assumed it was just a Speedmaster thing, getting their Ultraman's recognized etc. - I just want my extracts to say blue dial, red dial, matte black dial, baton diamonds etc.
Sadly I don't have the contacts or 240 CHF as an investment to run a test trial, and I doubt after this discussion anyone with connections would be willing to help me to run the second test 😁
I recall reading this on the forum, but it could have been a private discussion or read somewhere else
I don't think this is on topic or applies to me though, I assumed it was just a Speedmaster thing, getting their Ultraman's recognized etc. - I just want my extracts to say blue dial, red dial, matte black dial, baton diamonds etc.
Sadly I don't have the contacts or 240 CHF as an investment to run a test trial, and I doubt after this discussion anyone with connections would be willing to help me to run the second test 😁
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Jones in LA
··Not in LA anymore.Hey, it could be worse - they could treat you like Rolex. They supply parts to independent watchmakers (for a lot of calibers anyway), they have a vintage database, and have both an extract and authentication service.
Rolex gives you zero information, no respect at all for vintage watches, and hey guess what we won't even bother fixing some things you own, that really aren't even very old!
Omega could be better, but also could be much worse...
That, I can confirm. I took a Cal.1530 Submariner to the Beverly Hills Service Center, hoping to have it serviced. They told me that because of the movement's age (and presumed scarcity of parts) they would not service it for me unless I could provide proof that I'm the original owner. Seriously. The watch was 55+ years old then, and there is a very good chance that the original owner has been dead for some time.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerIt'll be hard for me to quote this, and to be honest I don't want to spend an hour to track the source, but there was a mention of asking a specific person to apply for an extract for the best result
I recall reading this on the forum, but it could have been a private discussion or read somewhere else
I don't think this is on topic or applies to me though, I assumed it was just a Speedmaster thing, getting their Ultraman's recognized etc. - I just want my extracts to say blue dial, red dial, matte black dial, baton diamonds etc.
Sadly I don't have the contacts or 240 CHF as an investment to run a test trial, and I doubt after this discussion anyone with connections would be willing to help me to run the second test 😁
There's no doubt some people have contacts at the museum. If they leverage those contacts, good for them I guess. I just don't see that this is specifically what makes Omega a bad company...or a company I should feel badly about. Again, they do far more for vintage collectors than most do, but several phrases apply...
No good deed goes unpunished...
You can't please evryone...
Etc.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerThat, I can confirm. I took a Cal.1530 Submariner to the Beverly Hills Service Center, hoping to have it serviced. They told me that because of the movement's age (and presumed scarcity of parts) they would not service it for me unless I could provide proof that I'm the original owner. Seriously. The watch was 55+ years old then, and there is a very good chance that the original owner has been dead for some time.
Odd that they would require you to be the original owner...what the heck does that have to do with parts availability? More nonsensical Rolex rules...I guess if you have a watch passed down to you, you are out of luck.
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kaplan
·There's no doubt some people have contacts at the museum. If they leverage those contacts, good for them I guess. I just don't see that this is specifically what makes Omega a bad company...or a company I should feel badly about. Again, they do far more for vintage collectors than most do, but several phrases apply...
No good deed goes unpunished...
You can't please evryone...
Etc.
This argument doesn't justify not treating everyone the same, I don't think anyone will think less of Omega if they made it transparent that their archive isn't complete and explicitly mentioned the missing information in these extracts. Plus EOA's aren't free, so those phrases certainly don't apply in this case
You don't have to feel personally attacked either, I'm not saying Omega is a bad company or don't like Omega, if that was the case I'd not be discussing this either and just move on, they should definitely improve EOA process though
I'd also make an argument for a limited right to repair access, restrict limited parts but let enthusiasts purchase crystals, gaskets, crowns and so on, things that will minimally keep a watch healthy and safe
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerThis argument doesn't justify not treating everyone the same,
I didn't say it did. I'm just saying that if people have access, they will use it. Just like when you asked someone in that other thread to give you access, and you would send them cufflinks in return - you would do the same as they do - it's human nature.
Plus EOA's aren't free, so those phrases certainly don't apply in this case
Well, they could end the controversy by ending extracts. They could not provide any information at all. Do you recall the uproar here when the vintage database disappeared for a while? This leads into my next point, or yours I guess..
You don't have to feel personally attacked either,
I don't. I'm just saying that this company that is going above and beyond what many others do, which doesn't seem to be well recognized by you. Yes, it's not perfect, we get it...
they should definitely improve EOA process though
If you have paid attention at all to my posts, you will know I agree. We may disagree in how it's improved however...unclear at this point.
So all this debate aside, you have a specific complaint, and have taken the time to create a thread about it here. Have you also taken the time to write to the museum, and seek answers from them about your dials? If so, what was the answer?
