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DoctorEvil
·These Speedmaster chronographs got serviced, some original 105.003 cal 321 models even got a replacement 861 movement in them 😲
Apollo 15: David Scott's Bulova and the case of the missing crystal...
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SpeedyPhill
·Those watches were serviced to remain operational, an example of a 321 to 861 swap is NASA S/N 19 which belonged to Wally Schirra
Knowing the Government rules on such "works" we can almost be sure the old 321 movements got discarded
Knowing the Government rules on such "works" we can almost be sure the old 321 movements got discarded
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Foo2rama
··Nowhere near as grumpy as he used to be...Yes, I've heard that. Also, Omega got around the "Buy American" legislation by ensuring that at least 50% of the components of the Speedmaster were made in the USA.
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cvalue13
·He subsequently wore it on the lunar surface during the third EVA, claiming that the crystal on his issued Speedy had popped off during the second EVA. This Bulova watch was auctioned off for $1.6mil a few years ago. I
You wouldn’t be the only one with some skepticism about how Scott (1) came to have the Bulova on board without NASA’s knowledge or permission, and (2) came to then have it in his suit pocket for the EVA, etc.
Alan Nelson, who in 1993 famously wrote the Speedmaster History piece that included the extensive FOIR materials around the Bulova controversy in 1978, later in 2019 wrote a 26-year follow-up and addressed the Scott Bulova incident in rather skeptical (indicting) terms:
So, while on one hand there were reports of other watch crystals popping off (one report known, below) and so Scott’s claim on that metric alone is not suspect as others have mentioned, on the other hand there are additional facts that mean you would not be alone is having a slightly jaundiced eye on the whole event.
Note that Nelson’s own skepticism likely is informed by his extensive research on the Bulova company’s decade-long effort to use political pressures in Washington to have the Speedmaster replaced, and some of the lengths the company went to in that effort.
Separately, on the topic of the one other crystal loss noted in official documents, while @SpeedyPhill above posted the official report language, I’ll below attach the astronaut’s report that served as the basis of it.
But to round out the Scott issue: it is interesting and perhaps some indirect evidence that while the other crystal loss has been found in various NASA reports, I don’t know of official NASA reports that do a similar “lessons learned about hardware” look-back regarding the Scott incident.
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cvalue13
·AFAIK there's no official report of the hesalite failure during Apollo 15... but there's an official report for the hesalite failure during Apollo 16 !
Moreover, there're photos showing Charlie Duke wearing the Speedmaster without hesalite during lunar EVA near the LRV
MoonwatchUniverse article excerpt:
📖
The Omega Speedmaster performed flawlessly and only two incidents were reported;
David Scott (Apollo 15 lunar EVA 2) and Charlie Duke (Apollo 16 lunar EVA 3 ).
After the mission, both astronauts reported that the hesalite glass had popped off from the watch, after which its stopped running...
@SpeedyPhill in addition to the Scott and Duke incidents, note also a third incident, the Mitchell comments, in the lunar dust report immediately above.
Note also that this report states that the Mitchell and Duke failures were the only Apollo failures. (And that the report appears to be capturing any failure not caused directly by dust.)
Interesting there is not official NASA report on the Scott failure - It appears to have been an internal controversy once discovered.
Edited:
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DoctorEvil
·You wouldn’t be the only one with some skepticism about how Scott (1) came to have the Bulova on board without NASA’s knowledge or permission, and (2) came to then have it in his suit pocket for the EVA, etc.
Alan Nelson, who in 1993 famously wrote the Speedmaster History piece that included the extensive FOIR materials around the Bulova controversy in 1978, later in 2019 wrote a 26-year follow-up and addressed the Scott Bulova incident in rather skeptical (indicting) terms:
So, while on one hand there were reports of other watch crystals popping off (one report known, below) and so Scott’s claim on that metric alone is not suspect as others have mentioned, on the other hand there are additional facts that mean you would not be alone is having a slightly jaundiced eye on the whole event.
Note that Nelson’s own skepticism likely is informed by his extensive research on the Bulova company’s decade-long effort to use political pressures in Washington to have the Speedmaster replaced, and some of the lengths the company went to in that effort.
Separately, on the topic of the one other crystal loss noted in official documents, while @SpeedyPhill above posted the official report language, I’ll below attach the astronaut’s report that served as the basis of it.
But to round out the Scott issue: it is interesting and perhaps some indirect evidence that while the other crystal loss has been found in various NASA reports, I don’t know of official NASA reports that do a similar “lessons learned about hardware” look-back regarding the Scott incident.
Yes, you'd be right in saying that I had quite a jaundiced view of the whole affair. I thought it was rather underhanded of Bulova to use this tactic to get their watch to the moon and given that Dave Scott did not declare his Bulova as part of his PPK, it is not surprising some have speculated that he was in on a plan to undermine Omega and that the loss of his Speedmaster's crystal was more than mere coincidence.
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pdxleaf
··"I cut it TWICE and it's still short!"The issue with the watches should be balanced against the flesh and blood men. Dave Scott wrote his master's thesis at MIT on interplanetary navigation. Scott worked on the design of the guidance system for the Apollo program. He was on Gemini and two Apollo missions. NASA had some bureacrates who overreacted.
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SpeedyPhill
·Bulova Lunar Pilot: A Great Watch, But… (YouTube Pilot Watch Gouge)
Remarks:AFAIK the hesalite pop-off on Apollo 15 Commander David Scott's NASA-issued Omega Speedmaster 105.012-65 chronograph was not described in the official Apollo 15 mission report.
Actually, during Apollo 16, LMP Charlie Duke's hesalite popped-off his NASA-issued Omega Speedmaster 105.012-66, an incident well-documented in the official Apollo 16 mission report.
In fact the last sentences on the Apollo 16 incident read: The Apollo chronograph is a secondary timing device and is not critical to mission success or crew safety. There are no plans for corrective action.
Interesting to know is the fact that David Scott also took a Bulova stopwatch onboard Apollo 15, used to time 23 seconds of DOI - Descent Orbit Insertion. Both the space-flown stopwatch and the lunar surface worn 44 mm manual winding Bulova prototype 885104/01 chronograph were sold at auction in October 2015.
At least three other wrist watches have been taken to the lunar surface: Apollo 14 LMP Edgar Mitchell wore two extra watches underneath the space suit, one on each wrist, one for each of his daughters. We know 100% sure the watch on his right hand wrist was a Rolex GMT-master 1675 pepsi bezel pilot watch. During Apollo 17, CMP Ronald Evans asked both Moonwalkers to take his personal Rolex GMT-master 1675 pepsi bezel pilot watch down to the lunar surface onboard Lunar Lander "Challenger" in December 1972.
3:50 what's that remark about Jim Lovell's Rolex Daytona 6239 flew on Apollo 13 ? During Apollo 13, CMP John Jack Swigert wore his personal Rolex GMT-master 1675 pepsi bezel pilot watch, which post-flight he swapped at Rolex in Switzerland for a Gold version Rolex GMT-master 1675 pepsi bezel pilot watch, seen in his iconic WSS White Space Suit portrait (NASA photo S71-52266).
