Forums Latest Members

Anyone have a historical watch?

  1. Seiji Mar 19, 2024

    Posts
    1,347
    Likes
    2,890
    I was looking through several Majetek watches and noticed there are several with a low dome mineral glass crystal. They might have left the factory with mineral glass along with others before the specification was updated.

    All of these Certificates were all done together during a visit over 2 days by the same staff so there should not be inconsistencies. On the "Certificates of Origin and Authenticity"; as expected, Longines will identify any part that is not made by Longines or just doesn't belong on the watch. The low dome mineral glass did not get called out as non-Longines. Not sure if this means it is original.

    [​IMG]

    These parts did get called out as not original on my other watches.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    All dated May 8th, 2019 ( Bernard Portal Master Watchmaker of the Heritage Workshop)
    [​IMG]
     
    Edited Mar 19, 2024
  2. Dan S Mar 19, 2024

    Posts
    19,188
    Likes
    44,097
    This reminds me that I need to get back to searching for a correct crown.
     
    Seiji likes this.
  3. Seiji Mar 24, 2024

    Posts
    1,347
    Likes
    2,890
    As a result of the Sempill Mission of November 1921, the Imperial Japanese Navy aquired more than 90 Gloster Sparrowhawk planes and several other types. The Sparrowhawk was built for the Imperial Japanese Navy. The identification numbers all begin with J.N. ####
    for the Japanese Navy.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Aircraft carriers did not exist yet so they were launched off of battleships. The flight deck was
    mounted on the turrents of the ship allowing the flight boss to turn the cannons into the wind.
    upload_2024-3-24_12-48-0.png
    [​IMG]

    As a result the interwar era, IJN developed many airplanes.
    [​IMG]

    And this interesting event also occured with a Japanese military pilot as member of the RAF.
    [​IMG]

    Here is an image of the Mark V attached to the instrument panel of a RFC aircraft.
    [​IMG]


    What is important about this Mark V, is it has an extremely rare set of markings from both the RFC and IJN.
    The issue number is #166 indicating that this was likely from the very first batch of aeroplanes delivered to
    the Imperial Japanese Navy Air Services between 1918 when the watch was made and 1922 at the end of the Sempill Mission. This watch that shows the transfer of technology from the British to Imperial Japan is unique.
    While there are many Mark IV and Mark V watches still in existance and available at any given moment, a
    double issued watch like the one below is perhaps one of the most unique watches in existance. Each J.N.
    aircraft would have had a watch matched to the plane. Since none of these Sparrowhawks seems to exist,
    the chances of finding another IJN Mark V is extremely low.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Sempill standing next to the future Empiror of Japan.
    upload_2024-3-24_12-32-47.png

    upload_2024-3-24_12-35-7.png

    upload_2024-3-24_12-38-59.png

    The Airbase developed in Japan.
    upload_2024-3-24_12-40-12.png


    British Instructor showing IJN Pilot Trainee how to drop a torpedo.
    upload_2024-3-24_12-49-55.png
     
    Edited Mar 25, 2024
    Vitezi, Waltesefalcon and noelekal like this.
  4. Seiji Mar 30, 2024

    Posts
    1,347
    Likes
    2,890
    It's a little hard to understand the scale of the Sempill Mission based off of Wikipedia and a couple of photos. I found the source of the photos and found much more information that shows how much the British Empire was supporting the Sempill Mission. This was not simply a small arms deal, it was a mission to build a complete Japanese Airforce starting with 90 airplanes and the technology to design and build new ones including airfields, fuel refineries, airplane factories, and radio.

    Below is the flight school and these were the British instructors.

    upload_2024-3-30_11-59-2.png


    This smilling Captain Yamamoto is Admiral Isokuro Yamamoto the Imperial Navy Field Marshall that is the commander of the entire Imperial Japanese Navy.
    upload_2024-3-30_12-0-25.png
    upload_2024-3-30_12-3-56.png


    These diagrams are taken from the plans on how to build oil refineries to make aircraft fuel.
    upload_2024-3-30_12-7-13.png
    upload_2024-3-30_12-9-47.png

    upload_2024-3-30_12-8-42.png

    upload_2024-3-30_12-7-28.png
    upload_2024-3-30_12-7-41.png

    This is knowledge transfer about the engine technology.
    upload_2024-3-30_12-10-48.png
    upload_2024-3-30_12-11-6.png

    Radio Technology and Morse Code training.
    upload_2024-3-30_12-20-28.png

    Japanese learned how to build planes from the R.F.C.
    50 Gloster SparrowHawks were delivered complete to IJN.
    40 SparrowHawks were constructed at Yokosuka Naval Arsenal Technical Center
    using British kits.
    upload_2024-3-30_12-22-25.png
    upload_2024-3-30_12-26-26.png

    And finally, the then H.R.H. The Prince of Wales visited Japan
    upload_2024-3-30_12-12-34.png
    upload_2024-3-30_12-12-51.png
     
    Edited Mar 30, 2024
    Vitezi, Waltesefalcon and noelekal like this.
  5. Seiji Apr 1, 2024

    Posts
    1,347
    Likes
    2,890
    On June 11, 1920, Sempill left London on the Nippon Yusen Sado Maru, accompanied by his wife Irene, their young daughter, and a maid, and arrived in Kobe on July 31. On the morning of August 1, he arrived in Tokyo by train, took the Joban Line train from Ueno, and arrived at Kasumigaura Air Base, which had just been established by the Navy, in the afternoon of the same day. Other members have been coming to Japan one after another since July. The group members lived in a specially prepared accommodation for foreigners, and Sempil lived in a house on the outskirts of Tsuchiura.

    [​IMG]Mr. and Mrs. Sempill arriving at Kobe Port on July 31, 1921 (front row)
    [​IMG]
    Sempill lived in a house on the outskirts of Tsuchiura. Sempil and his wife Irene in Japanese clothes. Irene died in 1935
    This was the beginning of a 1 year and 3 month course run by the Sempil Flying Group, which lasted until October 1922.

    The planes that the Japanese Navy purchased from Britain for the training included 72 Avro land trainers, 24 Avro surface trainers, 50 Sparohawk carrier-based fighters, 12 carrier-based reconnaissance planes, 12 carrier-based torpedo bombers, and 12 carrier-based torpedo bombers. A total of 181 aircraft, including 5 boats, 4 amphibious observation aircraft, and 2 torpedo bombers.

    According to the recollections of Lieutenant Asazou Kikuchi, the training course began in Yokosuka as a re-education course for those who had already become full-fledged pilots in Japan, and then at Kasumigaura Airfield for aeronautical students who were about to learn how to fly. (later flight students) were taught from scratch.

    Among the instructors who received Sempill's instruction were Captain Torao Kuwabara (later lieutenant general), Captain Takijiro Onishi (later lieutenant general), Captain Shunichi Kira (later lieutenant general), Captain Sadatoshi Senda (later lieutenant general), and Mikimori. During the Pacific War, many people, such as Captain Hiko (later Rear Admiral), led naval aviation units as air squadron commanders and air fleet commanders.

    [​IMG]Sempil (front row center, with legs crossed) and Japanese Navy airmen at Kasumigaura Airfield
    [​IMG]In August 1921, instruction by the Sempil Squadron began. Sempil is in the center
    The training group's military discipline was strict, and its education could only be described in one word: "severe.'' All of the courses were conducted in English, but the training was not just about imparting knowledge, but also instilling in the Japanese instructors the mindset that pilots must share their fate with their beloved aircraft, and the strict cleaning of airplanes and equipment after flight work. If there was even the slightest mistake or lack of attention, he would scold her mercilessly.

    "This later became the foundation for what would become our naval aviation."

    That's what Kikuchi wrote in his notebook.

    Sempill and others generously taught Japanese Navy instructors about the latest airplanes and new weapons such as aerial torpedoes. The UK has already commissioned the aircraft carrier "Argus'', which is a converted passenger ship under construction, and the aircraft carrier "Eagle'', which is a converted battleship that is currently under construction, and they are using completely new tactics to freely attack enemy territory with the aircraft they carry. I was groping.

    [​IMG]Seaplane training by Sempil Air Group
    [​IMG]
    Aerial torpedo drop scene. Sempill is believed to be piloting this plane.
    The Japanese Navy has also noticed this possibility and has already laid down construction for the aircraft carrier Hosho. Of the ships that were originally designed as aircraft carriers, the Royal Navy's Hermes was the first to start construction, but the Hosho was completed earlier, in December 1922, and the Hosho became the world's first regular aircraft carrier. became. Sempill and his team also provided guidance to the Japanese side on construction techniques for aircraft carrier flight decks. The first Japanese to successfully land on an aircraft carrier (March 16, 1923) was Captain Shunichi Kira, one of the instructors.
    [​IMG]Landing on the aircraft carrier "Hosho" by Captain Shunichi Kira
    [​IMG]

    Sempill and his group taught 70 officers, 6 special officers and warrant officers who had graduated from the ranks, and 142 non-commissioned officers, and they laid the foundation for the later development of the Japanese Naval Air Corps. The Japanese government awarded Sempil the Order of the Rising Sun, Third Class, with Ribbons for his achievements. After returning from Japan, Sempill took on a job advising governments on purchasing British weapons.

    While Sempill and his group were busy teaching aviation in Japan, the Washington Disarmament Conference was started at the request of the United States, which felt threatened by Japan's increasing naval power. As a result of this conference, Japan's number of capital ships (battleships) was limited to 60% of that of the United States and Britain, and the Anglo-Japanese Alliance, which had lasted more than 20 years, was set to expire in 1923.

    Due to the Washington Disarmament Treaty, the battleship Kaga and battlecruiser Akagi, which were being built beyond the capacity of capital ships, will be converted into aircraft carriers. However, at the time, the Japanese Navy had very little know-how about operating aircraft carriers, and was still trying to find a ship to take off and land planes.

    https://gendai.media/articles/-/76411?page=2
     
    Edited Apr 3, 2024
    Waltesefalcon and noelekal like this.
  6. Seiji Apr 3, 2024

    Posts
    1,347
    Likes
    2,890
    Imperial Japanese Navy bought and used the Sopwith Pup. We have definite proof the Mark V was installed on
    the Sopwith.
    upload_2024-4-3_20-26-56.png

    upload_2024-4-3_16-1-53.png

    upload_2024-4-3_15-56-41.png

    This is an instrument panel for the RFC Sopwith Pup. You can see the Mark V is mounted
    on the instrument panel on the right side.

    upload_2024-4-3_15-57-56.png

    IMG_8060.jpeg


    Sempill Mission definitely brought over the Sopwith Cuckoo and one was flown by Sempill demostrating how to drop a torpedo.

    upload_2024-4-3_16-1-12.png
    upload_2024-4-3_16-0-26.png
    upload_2024-4-3_16-5-14.png
     
    Edited Apr 3, 2024
    noelekal, Spruce and Waltesefalcon like this.
  7. Spruce Sunburst dial fan Apr 3, 2024

    Posts
    6,986
    Likes
    55,187
    Despite having been an avid Biggles fan (and still owning over twenty of my childhood volumes) and subsequently having read a great many Royal Flying Corps WW1 autobiographies, I had never previously heard of the Sopwith Cuckoo, so I’ve been really interested in learning about them. Thanks.
     
    Waltesefalcon, noelekal and Seiji like this.
  8. Seiji Apr 3, 2024

    Posts
    1,347
    Likes
    2,890
    Here is a better shot of the Mark V. Unfortunately, the way the close up works on this webpage, I can't get the Mark V part to show up in the zoom. If you know anything about a Mark V or Mark IV, then you will know that the Mark IV says "8-Days" on the bottom of the dial and the Mark V all have the two letter maker and 4 digit serial number of the watch. So this is definitely a Mark V installed on this British RFC Sopwith Pup. Basically identical to the IJN Sopwith Pup.

    upload_2024-4-3_18-22-17.png

    https://fineartamerica.com/featured...ne-ww1-cockpit-black-and-white-paul-ward.html


    Here is a Sopwith Pup with a Mark IV installed.
    upload_2024-4-3_19-44-14.png

    This is definitely a Mark IV written on the second line and 8 Days written above the sub dial.
    upload_2024-4-3_19-45-20.png
     
    Edited Apr 3, 2024
    Waltesefalcon and noelekal like this.
  9. Seiji Apr 3, 2024

    Posts
    1,347
    Likes
    2,890
    I don't know what this proves other than many models of Sopwith used Mark IV and Mark V watches. Here is a Sopwith Camel fighter. Just to contrast with the Sopwith Pup that definitely had Mark V watches.
    I think this is likely a Mark IV. The space between the first letter and the next suggests Mark IV "8 Days" rather than Mark V "AA 1234"
    upload_2024-4-3_18-42-34.png
    upload_2024-4-3_18-43-47.png

    What I still don't know is if there were Sopwith Pup as part of the Sempill Mission or if the Sopwith Cockoo had Mark V watches. So I still have a little hole I am trying to fill even though the chances are very good that IJN had these watches in 1920. There is a chance that the Sopwith Pup was aquired before the Sempill Mission as either number I, II, or III. June 1920 Kuwabara took off from the deck of the Wakamiya (first IJN flight off a ship) is a good sign it happened at the right time in a Pup. The time line is very close since Sempill left London and arrived in Japan around June 11, 1920.
     
    Edited Apr 3, 2024
    Vitezi, Waltesefalcon and noelekal like this.
  10. Seiji Apr 3, 2024

    Posts
    1,347
    Likes
    2,890
    Hard to see, but Kuwabara flew a Sopwith Pup and Sempill was there on the Wakamiya and Yamashiro with him.

    This is June 22, 1920.

    https://www.navygeneralboard.com/ai...ying-off-platforms-on-wakamiya-and-yamashiro/

    upload_2024-4-3_19-4-8.png



    Larger

    upload_2024-4-3_19-15-10.png

    upload_2024-4-3_19-16-16.png


    More related links
    https://japanese-aviation.forumotion.com/t60-02-sempill-s-mission-1921-to-1923

    You can decide if this is Kuwabara and a Sopwith Pup. The orientation of the verticle supports connecting the bi-plane wings definitely looks like a Pup vs the Sparrowhawk which has four sets.
    upload_2024-4-3_20-34-7.png

    IMG_8061.png
     
    Edited Apr 3, 2024
    Vitezi and noelekal like this.
  11. noelekal Home For Wayward Watches Apr 3, 2024

    Posts
    5,727
    Likes
    40,671
    The Sopwith Camel has a more advanced dash panel than I would have expected for 1916.
     
    Seiji likes this.
  12. Seiji Apr 3, 2024

    Posts
    1,347
    Likes
    2,890
    It appears that the Yamashiro also few the Sopwith Camel off the platform on the #2 gun turret.
    The Camel appears to have been the best fighter of the period. So the watch could have been on
    a Sopwith Pup or I presume a Sopwith Camel, but unknown yet if on a Gloster Sparrowhawk used
    similiar clocks. It might be possible since the Mark IV and Mark V seem to have been the military
    standard for the R.F.C.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Yamashiro

    upload_2024-4-3_21-33-58.png
     
    Edited Apr 3, 2024
    noelekal and Vitezi like this.
  13. Seiji Apr 4, 2024

    Posts
    1,347
    Likes
    2,890
    IMG_8077.png
    IMG_8078.png

    Sitting to the left? Eyes are very similar and square face. My guess is if Kuwabara/Kuwahara is in the picture, the most similar person is to the bottom left.

    The standing right and standing left are eliminated because Kuwabara is already a Captain by this time. Only the middle officers are possible. Unfortunately, this is not clear proof Kuwabara and Sempill were on Yamashiro at same time. By tradition, the most important person is always front row, center, and seated. Bottom left uniform is also highest rank shoulder boards, three stars. Sempill is the English officer in photo.
    IMG_8079.jpeg

    [​IMG]


    His uniform has high rank on his lapels. Rather unique combination of RFC.
    upload_2024-4-4_8-50-26.png
     
    Edited Apr 5, 2024
    noelekal likes this.
  14. Seiji Apr 4, 2024

    Posts
    1,347
    Likes
    2,890
    Some wrist pictures of the issued 3582 worn by the pilots.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The below is interesting. Jennifer did research and found that W.Guth is the only authorized agent for the Army.
    (I think we know now that the agents probably changed over time for the Army)

    This letter also shows that Longines Archives have information on which watches they engraved.
    MAJETEK VOJENSKÉ SPRÁVY

    upload_2024-4-4_15-39-54.png
     
    Edited Apr 9, 2024
    noelekal likes this.
  15. w154 Apr 4, 2024

    Posts
    2,552
    Likes
    5,488
    297B2A1B-0772-4DC1-BB56-C905FDC7DC39.jpeg D5184973-F062-4BBA-9FDA-83384C7B78E6.jpeg 0C28B266-94EB-4C37-8E2F-2E836511CA25.jpeg
    noelekal, Waltesefalcon and Seiji like this.
  16. Seiji Apr 4, 2024

    Posts
    1,347
    Likes
    2,890
  17. w154 Apr 4, 2024

    Posts
    2,552
    Likes
    5,488
    I clean forgot about it until the afternoon of the sale, and by then it had sold. The auctioneer doesn’t publish sold prices so I’ve no idea whether I’d have got it anyway, but to be honest I wouldn’t have paid much as I don’t really collect pocket watches. Should I joke that forgetting to bid gave me the hump ?
     
    Seiji likes this.
  18. Seiji Apr 5, 2024

    Posts
    1,347
    Likes
    2,890
    Edited Apr 5, 2024
    noelekal likes this.
  19. Seiji Apr 5, 2024

    Posts
    1,347
    Likes
    2,890
    upload_2024-4-5_13-19-3.png
    upload_2024-4-5_13-19-19.png
    upload_2024-4-5_13-19-41.png
    upload_2024-4-5_13-20-2.png
    upload_2024-4-5_13-20-26.png
    upload_2024-4-5_13-20-38.png
    upload_2024-4-5_13-20-56.png
    upload_2024-4-5_13-21-18.png
    upload_2024-4-5_13-21-28.png
    upload_2024-4-5_13-21-47.png
    upload_2024-4-5_13-21-58.png
    upload_2024-4-5_13-22-9.png
    upload_2024-4-5_13-22-24.png
    upload_2024-4-5_13-22-34.png
    upload_2024-4-5_13-23-31.png
     
    Waltesefalcon likes this.
  20. Seiji Apr 5, 2024

    Posts
    1,347
    Likes
    2,890
    This could explain the Issue number 166 can fall into the original number of airplanes for the Sempill Mission.
    The 90 aircraft was definitely only the Sparrowhawks.

    About 200 airplanes were in the mission. Only a handfull of planes existed prior to the Sempill Mission.
    upload_2024-4-5_14-15-19.png
    upload_2024-4-5_13-30-14.png
     
    Edited Apr 6, 2024
    noelekal and Waltesefalcon like this.