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Another potential Ultraman...

Petervl
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Varnado Varnado
You guys are getting good at this..

Archive cannot be obtained because it is not a genuine Ultraman.
Serial range is close but incorrect, just like this one.. Close but incorrect, so its not in proper range.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Military-I...876057?hash=item26134266d9:g:Z0wAAOSw~X1bdjGs

Dial sub dial print is not messed with, but the dial has been re lumed.

Anyone want to guess why the seller isn't calling it an Ultraman?

Because it is not one……..and then he has not made a wrong description
 
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Varnado
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Yes, in simple terms that is correct. But, by placing an Orange hand on a Speedy that is the correct length you are implying that its original to the watch, thus making it an Ultraman. I can assure you this is not a genuine Ultraman and the seller is covering his AS* by not claiming it is..
 
gdupree
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Varnado Varnado
I can assure you this is not a genuine Ultraman
Is this speculation posed in the form of a definitive statement, or do you actually know this? If so, care to share how you know this?
 
MikeMan2727
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gdupree gdupree
Is this speculation posed in the form of a definitive statement, or do you actually know this? If so, care to share how you know this?

He probably won't want to give away his tells...
 
adi4
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MikeMan2727 MikeMan2727
He probably won't want to give away his tells...

Go fly out and grab a coffee with him and he'll reveal all! 😝
 
simonsays
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I agree with @oddboy that the omission of Ultraman in the listing is to create the illusion of 'finding the needle in the haystack'. There is no legal definition of ‘Ultraman’, it is just a nickname. Even Omega just states it has an orange hand fitted in the extract.
For me if the extract doesn't date to quite a narrow window of June 1968 its probably no good, and then the provenance at time of purchase and total originality of the watch is everything.
The extract is the money maker but no guarantee of correctness, or that it originally had an orange hand fitted at the factory. Just that it fits into the range when some did, and it has one now.
 
BenBagbag
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In his ad he says feel free to reach out to him on IG. His handle is @sportrolexes

Hear him, in his own words, dodge and deflect on why he didn't get an extract!
👍
 
Varnado
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"I agree with @@oddboy that the omission of Ultraman in the listing is to create the illusion of 'finding the needle in the haystack"
I think you mean you agree with Varnado, not Oddboy.

Gdupreee:
"Is this speculation posed in the form of a definitive statement, or do you actually know this? If so, care to share how you know this?"
Yes, I am making a definite statement based on the documented range of known Ultraman's. The range of Ultramans is very narrow. The 4th, 5th and 6th digit are of utmost importance in determining if the watch was or even could have been fitted with the orange hand. The seller indicated the 4th and 5th numbers via PM and they are not within the range. This is also why he has not obtained an archive, regardless of what his reasoning is for not doing so. In fact, if you knew it was a real Ultraman and could get the archive, the watch would be selling in the 30-40k range. There is no reason to sell it for half that price if you can obtain an archive for $130 USD.


Mikeman and Adi: You guys are funny. Any chance either of you have ever been laid before? Just wondering, with all that comedy the boys must love you..
"He probably won't want to give away his tells..."
"Go fly out and grab a coffee with him and he'll reveal all!"
Edited:
 
Varnado
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FYI: 26,075,5XX-26,079,7XX. His movement doesnt fall within this range
 
simonsays
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The issue with the Ultraman is that there are several thousand watches that fit the bill and have the right serial number.
So how long before the value of the few genuine watches are compromised by the numerous watches that have been manipulated?
 
Varnado
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The answer is easy..
1. Proper length Orange hand
2. Archive showing it to be fitted with Orange Hand
3. Caseback with SP engraving

Any watch that doesnt have all 3 isnt worth any premium (to me)
 
simonsays
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Varnado Varnado
The answer is easy..
1. Proper length Orange hand
2. Archive showing it to be fitted with Orange Hand
3. Caseback with SP engraving

Any watch that doesnt have all 3 isnt worth any premium (to me)


Even those 3 qualities would not satisfy me. When £10-15k in value is added with the addition of an orange hand expect many more to turn up.
 
Varnado
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If you can produce those 3 items that can survive the scrutiny of collectors and Omega then you are entitled to the 20k premium.

Even if you could swap casebacks and find a loose Orange hand of the proper length, you would then need to find one of those 4000 movements within the range AND forge an Archive that would and could be cross referenced by Omega Museum.

How you gonna do that? Break into Omega, steal a blank Archive, print it on their Printers and then hack the archives to reflect an orange hand?
 
bigsom
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Varnado Varnado
The answer is easy..
1. Proper length Orange hand
2. Archive showing it to be fitted with Orange Hand
3. Caseback with SP engraving

Any watch that doesnt have all 3 isnt worth any premium (to me)

You're missing two from your list ... So much for an easy answer!
 
simonsays
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An SP case back is standard, the watch in question has it. As you say @Varnado there are several thousand movements within the correct range, and omega will give you the extract based on that and evidence of the hand in place. That leaves, as I said a lot of money to find the hand.

The other 2 points, caramel lume and glossy dial are unconfirmed but also common to the watches in that serial range, so not a deciding factor for me.

If you are in the market I would suggest a bit more caution or you may get burned!
 
Varnado
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SP case backs are not found on all 145-012's so, its a tell. I didn't mention the Seller in Questions watch specifically, I just said its one of the tells. As far as caramel lume, well thats a new one to me. I always thought the way a watch was stored or the climate in which it was worn would have the greatest effect on lume patina, but this is a new one to me.. Now we know, all Ultramans must have identical lume color. Insert sarcasm here..

Bigsom: If you wish to disclose publicly the other tells then by all means YOU can do so. This is a pattern around here. I will not disclose dial variations and other discerning details differentiating Ultraman's from other 145's. But, by all means let it fly so the counterfeiters can make better fakes.

Here we go again.
 
padders
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simonsays simonsays
An SP case back is standard, the watch in question has it. As you say @Varnado there are several thousand movements within the correct range, and omega will give you the extract based on that and evidence of the hand in place. That leaves, as I said a lot of money to find the hand.

The other 2 points, caramel lume and glossy dial are unconfirmed but also common to the watches in that serial range, so not a deciding factor for me.

If you are in the market I would suggest a bit more caution or you may get burned!

Totally agree. Varnado's list of 3 points just isn't enough when there are extracts out there which were done on the basis of what was fitted. Perhaps he saves points 4 and 5 for the inner cabal who meet at his local Starbucks.😉
 
Varnado
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Perhaps he saves points 4 and 5 for the inner cabal who meet at his local Starbucks.😉

If you know something then by all means post it. If you dont then you shouldn't be buying an Ultraman to begin with.
 
padders
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Varnado Varnado
Perhaps he saves points 4 and 5 for the inner cabal who meet at his local Starbucks.😉

If you know something then by all means post it. If you dont then you shouldn't be buying an Ultraman to begin with.
I thought you were against free dissemination of information? Anyhow, I agree. The Ultraman in general is an emperor's new clothes watch until the extract process can be proven to be squeaky clean since the questionable way some have been obtained until even very recently makes many of them suspect.
Edited:
 
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