Advice Please - Watch Damaged During Service Estimate

sonicosa · Mar 15, 2020

Hello OF,

I just picked up a 166.027 I had dropped off at a new shop for a service estimate. I had stopped by to look at some watches one day, got to talking with a sales person, and the ballpark figure she gave me for a service sounded very reasonable. so I thought I'd give them a try. The estimate came back substantially higher than I was expected, so I declined the service.

When I dropped off the watch, it only had one post attached to the dial and was moving a tad in the case. I asked if this could be secured with a dial dot as part of the service. When I got home with the watch today, I noticed the dial was freely spinning in the case. I opened the watch up, and the remaining post was snapped off the dial. The post was still in the movement hole, held in place very securely by the dial screw (more securely than I suspect it was when I dropped the watch off).

I called the shop to let them know. The woman I've been working with said she would contact the watchmaker and let me know what he says by tomorrow.

Some additional information - this is a jewelry store. They also sell vintage and preowned watches and carry a handful of modern brands. The watchmaker is offsite, and they told me he is a certified Omega watchmaker, very competent etc. But they said he is very a very private person and wouldn't give me any additional information about him.

I'm not really sure what I'm looking for here, but I'm not pleased that I got the watch back in a condition other than I left it with them. I would have at least appreciated them being up front about what happened.

Since I've never been in this situation before, I'd appreciate advice anyone is willing to share - even if it's "Get a dial dot and enjoy your noob tax." I'm planning to take the watch elsewhere for a service soon.

Thanks in advance, Jens

Canuck · Mar 15, 2020

Rare for just one dial foot to break off. Could happen, I suppose.

Dan S · Mar 15, 2020

I have no advice, but I'm sorry that happened. I've had several watches damaged during service/repairs and it's not a good feeling. There's always some risk in tampering with old watches.

sonicosa · Mar 15, 2020

Dan S
I have no advice, but I'm sorry that happened. I've had several watches damaged during service/repairs and it's not a good feeling. There's always some risk in tampering with old watches.

Thanks, Dan. I appreciate it.

Canuck
Rare for just one dial foot to break off. Could happen, I suppose.

I just came into possession of the watch 10 days ago and noticed the one foot was broken / missing when I received it.

airansun · Mar 15, 2020

Dan S
I have no advice, but I'm sorry that happened. I've had several watches damaged during service/repairs and it's not a good feeling. There's always some risk in tampering with old watches.

I second this. Also, untested watchmakers are an additional risk.

Archer · Mar 16, 2020

sonicosa
When I dropped off the watch, it only had one post attached to the dial and was moving a tad in the case. I asked if this could be secured with a dial dot as part of the service. When I got home with the watch today, I noticed the dial was freely spinning in the case. I opened the watch up, and the remaining post was snapped off the dial. The post was still in the movement hole, held in place very securely by the dial screw (more securely than I suspect it was when I dropped the watch off).

When only one dial foot is attached, and the other is not, as you noted it allows the dial to move around. This will inevitably cause the other foot to break, and I suspect that's what's happened. From what you describe, the dial likely had the foot attached to the dial when the watchmaker put it back together, and somewhere along the line the dial moved enough to snap the other one off.

Since you declined the service (which would have included a dial dot as you asked for) I'm not sure there's much recourse here...

sonicosa · Mar 16, 2020

Archer
When only one dial foot is attached, and the other is not, as you noted it allows the dial to move around. This will inevitably cause the other foot to break, and I suspect that's what's happened. From what you describe, the dial likely had the foot attached to the dial when the watchmaker put it back together, and somewhere along the line the dial moved enough to snap the other one off.

Since you declined the service (which would have included a dial dot as you asked for) I'm not sure there's much recourse here...

Thanks for the reply Archer. Your perspective is appreciated.

I don't think I was expecting much in terms of recourse. I was hoping for more of a "Here is what happened. Sorry we didn't flag you on that when you picked up the watch."

If you wouldn't mind weighing in further - since I have the foot, is there any point in asking it be reattached with epoxy or something similar when I have it serviced? Or is it better just to go the dial dot route at this point?

ZIELSZIEK · Mar 16, 2020

Archer
When only one dial foot is attached, and the other is not, as you noted it allows the dial to move around. This will inevitably cause the other foot to break, and I suspect that's what's happened. From what you describe, the dial likely had the foot attached to the dial when the watchmaker put it back together, and somewhere along the line the dial moved enough to snap the other one off.

Since you declined the service (which would have included a dial dot as you asked for) I'm not sure there's much recourse here...

sonicosa
Thanks for the reply Archer. Your perspective is appreciated.

I don't think I was expecting much in terms of recourse. I was hoping for more of a "Here is what happened. Sorry we didn't flag you on that when you picked up the watch."

If you wouldn't mind weighing in further - since I have the foot, is there any point in asking it be reattached with epoxy or something similar when I have it serviced? Or is it better just to go the dial dot route at this point?

+1 here, I had an old Seiko 7002A in highschool that had a crooked dial, I took it to the watchmaker's and the guy took it apart, one of the dial feet was broken. As I had no money to fix it, I chose not to have the watch done. About a month later the dial was moving freely when the watch was turned and I ended up buying a non running similar watch that had a good dial.
If a dial foot(or both is/are broken) some watchmakers solder them back on, they get replacement bergeon dial feet if the original ones are unusable. Just make sure it is somebody competent enough to do this as there is a small risk. The dial can get damaged because of the heat. Don't ask for it to be glued back on, it won't last.

Archer · Mar 16, 2020

There are different ways of addressing this issue of broken dial feet. The "gold standard" sort of repair is to solder new dial feet on, and to that end I have a dial foot soldering machine that uses electricity to generate the heat to melt the solder. To be honest I've never been able to get what I consider to be a satisfactory result with this machine, despite hours of testing and tweaking - trying different solder, different flux, etc..

I have a friend who is a goldsmith, and I took a test dial over to him a while back to have him try laser welding some dial feet on a dial. The heat required was too great for it to be done on a painted dial - it would most certainly have damaged the dial on the front side. He solders things all the time, so he had a go using his small torch - the solder joint was great, but again it would have damaged the front of the dial due to the heat required.

I have spoken to many other watchmakers who also struggle with finding an acceptable solution that won't put the dial finish at risk...

As much as dial dots are pretty much a hack repair, the good thing about them is that they do no damage, and don't create a situation where the dial can't be fixed down the road if a good solution presents itself.

Cheers, Al

Dan S · Mar 16, 2020

I started a thread on the topic of replacing dial feet at one point.
https://omegaforums.net/threads/repairing-dial-feet-yes-again.103126/

It turns out that soldering dial feet on a painted dial is more of an art than a science, but using low-temperature solder definitely helps. If you go this route, I would suggest that you use someone with experience doing it.

sonicosa · Mar 16, 2020

Thank you both @ZIELSZIEK and @Archer for taking the time to respond to my questions and share your perspectives. Sine the dials for this reference are hard to come by, dial dots it is!

I'll be sure to post some pics once I get it back in working order.

and Edit to say thanks to @Dan S for the above link.

FREDMAYCOIN · Mar 16, 2020

I am no watch maker by any means, but I have experimented with old dials and for the most part the feet are pretty resilient. It’s takes a substantial force to break them or to bend them, so my suggested root cause is that a inexperienced wannabe watch maker(like me) at some point or another attempted to remove the dial by prying the dial off instead of removing the dial screws. I also think that if a jeweler is using an independent watch maker for their services and something happens to a watch they should take responsibility and make things right. Good luck with your watch.

Dan S · Mar 16, 2020

As I mentioned before, it’s very unfortunate but I’m not sure what the watchmaker or jeweler could do in practice to make things better. The dial already needed repair. I suppose the OP could ask for the jeweler to pay for the watchmaker to install dial dots, which would make the watch usable. However, since the OP intends to have the watch serviced anyway, it really makes more sense to do everything at once, and adding the dial dots to the cost of a service will probably be a negligible incremental expense.

sonicosa · Mar 16, 2020

Well, thanks again for the responses everyone. I heard back from the jewelry store this afternoon.

The watchmaker said the foot was intact when the watch left his shop, so it must have broken in transit back to the jewelry store. As I mentioned before, the post / foot was held in place very securely by the dial screw when I opened it up. Maybe the added tension caused the foot to break, because there was no play when the watch would turn / rotate while being handled. Maybe this put additional stress on where the foot is attached to the dial? I guess the other possibility is the watchmaker is not being honest.

Either way, this is what I was hoping for in terms of recourse - that I would get a response explaining their side of the situation / what likely happened, so I am satisfied. As an added bonus, they offered me a significant discount off the original price they quoted me for the service. I wasn't expecting that, but it's something I appreciate and will consider.

All in all, I am happy with how this played out, and thank you to everyone who chimed in.

Archer · Mar 16, 2020

sonicosa
As I mentioned before, the post / foot was held in place very securely by the dial screw when I opened it up. Maybe the added tension caused the foot to break, because there was no play when the watch would turn / rotate while being handled. Maybe this put additional stress on where the foot is attached to the dial?

If you are suggesting this was somehow overtightened, and that lead to this problem, that's not really the case.

Dial screws need to be fastened very securely, or you end up opening watches and finding them laying in the case, like this:

Putting them in place "very securely" is what is normal.

Cheers, Al

Dan S · Mar 16, 2020

I'm not sure speculation is very helpful at this point, but if the dial was only secured by one foot, stress could potentially be applied by moving the crown if there is any play when pulled out into the setting position.

sonicosa · Mar 16, 2020

Archer
If you are suggesting this was somehow overtightened, and that lead to this problem, that's not really the case.

Dial screws need to be fastened very securely, or you end up opening watches and finding them laying in the case, like this:

Putting them in place "very securely" is what is normal.

Cheers, Al

No, sorry, I wasn't trying to say that it was overtightened. I was trying to say that perhaps by tightening the dial screw correctly and securely, more more torque might have been applied on the post when the watch was handled / rotated than previously when the dial post was able to rotate a bit in its hole. This might have caused what was probably an already weakened attachment to break during transit.

Maybe this is incorrect thinking as well (I'm no physicist, and don't even know if torque is the correct term) , but I want to emphasize I didn't mean the watchmaker overtightened the screw causing the post to break free form the dial.

But again, thanks for your response, @Archer . In my time on this forum, I've been impressed with the time you dedicate to sharing your knowledge and expertise with others.

Canuck · Mar 16, 2020

I don’t own an instrument for soldering dial feet. But if these machines are difficult to use to obtain a satisfactory job, I suspect bismuth solder (low melt point) might help achieve better results.

Advice Please - Watch Damaged During Service Estimate

sonicosa

Canuck

Dan S

sonicosa

airansun

Archer

sonicosa

ZIELSZIEK

Archer

Dan S

sonicosa

FREDMAYCOIN

Dan S

sonicosa

Archer

Dan S

sonicosa

Canuck

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