Hi guys,

Firstly I'd like to thank everyone on the forum for all the knowledge and advice Ive benefitted from.

I would greatly appreciate some wisdom on this issue that has been giving me grief.

I recently purchased a flat foot crown that was advertised as being meant for cal 321 speedmasters.
The depth and diameter dimensions match that on MWO (unfortunately this was all I relied on prior to purchase)
24 teeth
The seller said that this crown would accomodate a 1.1mm stem.
I purchased this crown to fit on a 145.012-67

The pictures of the crown from the website are as follows:









(Credits for the above photos: https://maximaze.com/DETAILS/MM/6916)

Following the purchase, I brought the crown to my watchmaker to have it fitted only for him to tell me it was not compatible. He was kind enough to explain to me why it didnt fit.

On the left is my watchmakers A1 flat foot speedy crown (which fit my watch perfectly)
On the right is the crown in question (flushed tube, and though its difficult to see, the lumen diameter is larger). This did not fit.


From the front



On the left is the crown i purchased
On the right is a B2 crown my watch originally had on
(same thing with the tube and diameter)


Top view
Again purchased crown on left, B2 on the right


The seller maintains he has sold to multiple people with no issues.

I'd like to appeal to watchmakers and the experts here to help me identify this crown, and if it truly is a crown for a cal321 speedy.
My educated guess following post-purchase research is that this crown may be meant for a vintage railmaster/seamaster.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Thank you in advance for the advice.

These were the threads that I referred to:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/advice-needed-with-flat-feet-crowns-sea-speed-masters.60185/
https://omegaforums.net/threads/omega-speedmaster-321-crown-and-tubesize.70398/

 

Can you take some clearer pictures of the backside? It's hard to tell if this A1 has the crimp marks one should see on a vintage specimen.

 

This has been discussed by us before but I cannot find the exact thread I am thinking of but the one below might help.
https://omegaforums.net/threads/thoughts-on-this-ed-white-on-ebay.88440/#post-1154472
I used to sell these crowns with the old style logo but no crimping on the underside complete and ready to fit.

For that crown to fit your watch you will have to fit two stem extensions. The tube in the crown you have is 1.2mm I believe
So you will need a stem first which is 0.9 then a extension of 0.9mm to 1.0mm then 1.0mm to 1.2mm

Before you do any of the above of course please check the crown will fit on your crown tube.
There are also fake crowns around now, I cannot say for certain if the crown you are showing is right or wrong TBH.

Hope that helps.

 

Thanks for the reply, these are the best pics i can take with my loupe.

The crown in question:








With the B2 (right) for comparison.

Thank you for the reply. Do these pictures change your opinion?
I had never previously called into question the authenticity of the crown, mainly because of the sellers reassurance and his years of experience. I was also not aware that fakes that matched the MWO specs even existed.
That being said, could I please check what the stock cal.321 stem size should be on a 145.012-67? Im guessing this is 0.9mm.
Am I right to say that if it does not fit without adding extensions, that it is not intended for that model?

 

As I understand it - that crown whilst vintage, would not have been installed on a Speedmaster - but with the right extensions can be made to per Michael e

 

Very difficult to understand!. I too have had the same problem? Could it be because it's for a Seamaster.. I've seen many flat foots sell knowing they're simply not going to fit. With these I tend to think a guarantee is in order owing to the fact they're 10 a penny. They will fit with the right stem but there are also the version with the extended 'spline' which people seem to 'fall for' every time. A bargain at 250!. You can make them fit but

 

I was trying to make two points. My first - I’d say this crown was vintage and period correct. T he second - I don’t believe this was from a speedy. I can’t say categorically a I’m not a Seamaster guy - but I agree - I’d call seamaster.

Either way - I am curious about what the watch maker say it didn’t fit. Was it that the existing stem didn’t fit the crown - or that the crown wouldn’t fit on the crown tube.

 

Now I can see it, it is certainly an old authentic crown.
Does it fit on your crown tube? Also what is the stem tube width exactly?

 

Thank you for the info.

The former. He said that, and showed me that the existing stem did not fit the crown. The stem tube in the crown was too big to accommodate the stem. He did not really point out the case tube to me being an issue.

I had bought this crown because I wanted an original, vintage A1 crown specifically for my 145.012-67, cal321. It was advertised as such. I paid a price that was representative of that. I was never prepared to make modifications to anything other than what was promised.

There are obviously speedy vintage crown nuances that aren't represented in MWO, especially in comparison to railmasters/seamasters. I hope others don't make the same costly mistake I did. Sigh.

Thanks for the reply and info. Would you be able to tell what model this belongs to?
I am not sure about fitting of the crown tube. My watchmaker was focusing mainly on the stem being incompatible with the stem tube and showed me how loose it was, not being able to sit properly.
The seller said the stem tube was 1.1mm diameter.

 

There are many folks who’ve learnt this. Myself included

It may be worth asking if your watchmaker can make it fit. As I read your post it sounds like vintage 321 is your primary focus - not that this crown must have come from a speedy.

 

My primary focus is that the crown is original to a speedy, is for cal321, and specifically for a 145.012-67. The fact that I have to make modifications shows that it isn't

 

https://omegaforums.net/threads/321-crown-replacement.51128/

 

Thank you very much

 

I can respect that. I imagine this is a quick job for a watchmaker to swap - but I share your view of Railmaster/Seamaster crowns on my own Speedies.

 

I ended up getting a separate, correct A1 crown that fit the existing stem and crown tube without any extensions/modifications.
I now face an uphill task of trying to get a refund

 

Might be easier to buy a railmaster that needs a crown?

 

If it was sold as something that it clearly isn't, then the seller should come good, or you should out them here.

 

Thanks for the support. I think it's acceptable for anyone to make a mistake and come good. However Im facing a lot of resistance from him despite all this photos, evidence and OF opinions. Quite disappointing.

To absolve himself from the trouble of dealing with me, he tried to arrange a sale (of the crown I purchased) to someone else from my country without telling him the issues I had. I found this out when I was put in contact with the guy. The potential buyer rightfully backed out when I showed him all the pictures and evidence. Pretty unethical.

 

Hi guys, its been almost 6 months since I first posted about this issue. I thank everyone for their valuable input and advice and feel it is only right I close the loop.

After a long email correspondence with the seller, as part of a return, he advised me to ship the crown back to him. It reached him on 20 June. He had me fill up a returns application form and following his 'assessment' deemed that the crown was in used condition and that he was unable to sell this as new. (His store has a returns policy which does not state that returned items must be new/unused)

My watchmaker had not applied the crown to the watch when I had brought it to him. In spite of this I did not ask the seller to show me proof of these 'signs of use' and asked him for a fair compensation, as even used crowns command some value.

I asked him for $400 USD (of the 470 I paid minus priority shipping back to him) to which he flatly refused. I asked him to give me a reasonable counter offer. That is when the correspondence ended. His last email to me was on Sept 14 and since then, I had sent him 3 emails over the course of the next two months to which I got no response.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he might have been busy or had a full inbox, unfortunately when I used a different email address to enquire about a 'new sale', I got a response within the hour.

What this seller has done is theft.

The seller is Tony Nohra from Iowa. His website is www.maximaze.com. This business is not registered in Iowa.
He does not have any reviews on watch forums.
These are his other domains (in case he moves his business to another one of these).



Throughout my correspondence with him (post sales) he was shockingly rude, threatening and defensive. It was a challenge being civil with him.
He questioned the authenticity of my 145.012, which I bought here from a reputable member of the forum.
He spared no expense constantly reminding me that this was entirely my fault alone and had threatened to sue me for libel when he tried to arrange a sale between me and @josephgsy which thankfully didnt happen because I was open about the issues I had with the crown.

He dismissed all the research, literature and opinions on the watch forums as being from a "public watch forum where users have no credentials to answer questions". On multiple occasions, he had quoted the crown dimensions in the MWO book alone as his justification, but contradicted himself later by altering his sales post to include stem and tube dimensions. These factors call into question whether he is truly experienced enough to deal with and sell vintage watch products.

Spot the differences:




I have ruled out the option of seeking legal recourse in Iowa since sending him a demand letter costs more than the crown itself. I have resigned myself to the fact that this was an expensive lesson. I have to admit this whole ordeal has really put me off vintage watches, a hobby I used to enjoy.

I would strongly advise against dealing with this seller. Please don't make the same mistake I did.

 

Sorry to hear that.
So this guys reputation is only worth a few hundred $, it will probably cost him much more than that in the long run due to lost sales.