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A first thread from me, and a question about 2451s

johnyboy
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Hi All,

Just joined the forum and want to ask some advice.

I've got a tatty gold 2451, the serial number on the case starts 112*** and the movement 138***, according to the might google that's a case from the late 1940s and a movement from the mid 1950s.

Does that suggest that a new movement was fitted at some point, or is this quite normal? It's quite a tatty watch with mismatched pushers/crown and a badly damaged dial, but it is gorgeous so would quite like to get it looking original even if it's a dreadful investment.

Thanks

John
 
johnyboy
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This is the only photo I have with me at the moment.
IMG_3758.webp


I’m assuming it should have a thinner crown and gold plated pushers, these look stainless rather than worn.
 
padders
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johnyboy johnyboy
Hi All,

Just joined the forum and want to ask some advice.

I've got a tatty gold 2451, the serial number on the case starts 112*** and the movement 138***, according to the might google that's a case from the late 1940s and a movement from the mid 1950s.

Does that suggest that a new movement was fitted at some point, or is this quite normal? It's quite a tatty watch with mismatched pushers/crown and a badly damaged dial, but it is gorgeous so would quite like to get it looking original even if it's a dreadful investment.

Thanks

John
Just a general point, not specific to the data above but are you aware that case and movement serials run in different ranges? An all original watch will have rather different case and serial no's, often they are out by millions.
 
johnyboy
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padders padders
Just a general point, not specific to the data above but are you aware that case and movement serials run in different ranges? An all original watch will have rather different case and serial no's, often they are out by millions.
There just seems to be ~5 year difference, didn't know if that was typical - sounds like it might be.
 
padders
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johnyboy johnyboy
There just seems to be ~5 year difference, didn't know if that was typical - sounds like it might be.
Well is there though, are you using 2 different tables of dates, one for the case and one for the movement? Because that is how it works.
 
johnyboy
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I don't have a table for the movement, there's just a thread on here somewhere that mentioned a few movement numbers and dates, mine just is a significantly higher number than one that is described as being mid 1951 (I think).
 
dsio
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They were made for a lot of years and effectively evolved into the Seamaster chronograph eventually, its also worth noting that these are Lemania 321 powered so the Speedmaster serial chart likely applies rather than the standard Omega serial chart.
 
Porteroso
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I think you'd have to be right about the crown, but the pushers I guess could just have had all the gold plating rubbed off.

It's a very cool watch. Patina divides people, but I think it's pretty cool. Hard to tell what is patina, and what might be damage or even just dirt... But nonetheless I like it.
 
johnyboy
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dsio dsio
They were made for a lot of years and effectively evolved into the Seamaster chronograph eventually, its also worth noting that these are Lemania 321 powered so the Speedmaster serial chart likely applies rather than the standard Omega serial chart.
Do you know a good reference for the correct charts?
 
johnyboy
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Porteroso Porteroso
I think you'd have to be right about the crown, but the pushers I guess could just have had all the gold plating rubbed off.

It's a very cool watch. Patina divides people, but I think it's pretty cool. Hard to tell what is patina, and what might be damage or even just dirt... But nonetheless I like it.
The crown looks too modern to me, but then I've seen stainless watches from the late 40s/early 50s that have similar thick crowns, so I'm not quite sure. The plating might have worn on the pushers, the narrow bit is certainly "golden" rather than stainless.

I quite like the dial too, but it's a bit more difficult to read than I thought it would be.
 
Porteroso
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johnyboy johnyboy
The crown looks too modern to me, but then I've seen stainless watches from the late 40s/early 50s that have similar thick crowns, so I'm not quite sure. The plating might have worn on the pushers, the narrow bit is certainly "golden" rather than stainless.

I quite like the dial too, but it's a bit more difficult to read than I thought it would be.
I wonder if you get the hands a bit cleaner, and the indices, if that's enough to read it more easily. Yeah it does seem to all blend together.
 
johnyboy
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Porteroso Porteroso
I wonder if you get the hands a bit cleaner, and the indices, if that's enough to read it more easily. Yeah it does seem to all blend together.
Any idea what would be best to clean it with?
 
Porteroso
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johnyboy johnyboy
Any idea what would be best to clean it with?
I would not try it, I'd let a watchmaker try it, and only if they seem to be comfortable with it. The restoration aspect, not every watchmaker is good at. I mean it's your watch, but bending a hand is so easily done, and for me it would be a pretty big risk I'd only want to take if I was ok with ruining the hands.

If you take it to a watchmaker, and make it clear you are wondering about a light cleaning of the indices and hands, not touching the rest of the dial, you could get an idea of price, and decide what to do.
 
cristos71
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Dial looks like toast to me. I can hardly see any minute hash marks on the edge and I think just the slight remnants here and there of a tachymeter scale. Cleaning it would be a waste of time IMHO.

Do you have pictures of the case back, inside case back and movement?
Edited:
 
johnyboy
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cristos71 cristos71
Dial looks like toast to me. I can hardly see any minute hash marks on the edge and I think just the slight remnants here and there of a tachometer scale. Cleaning it would be a waste of time IMHO.

Do you have pictures of the case back, inside case back and movement?
Not sure there was a tachometer scale on it at all, but there are a couple of minute marks on it.

I wouldn't argue that it is knackered, it's just a matter of whether it could be made a fraction more readable and keep it tatty - or whether I just get it repainted.
 
johnyboy
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Porteroso Porteroso
I would not try it, I'd let a watchmaker try it, and only if they seem to be comfortable with it. The restoration aspect, not every watchmaker is good at. I mean it's your watch, but bending a hand is so easily done, and for me it would be a pretty big risk I'd only want to take if I was ok with ruining the hands.

If you take it to a watchmaker, and make it clear you are wondering about a light cleaning of the indices and hands, not touching the rest of the dial, you could get an idea of price, and decide what to do.
I’ll ask about that, it could probably do with a service anyway.
 
johnyboy
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quick update, I decided that I'd buy a toasted dial off ebay and get that repainted, I'll see if the original is cleanable - or just keep it as is in case I ever sell the watch and the new owner wants the "meteorite" dial.

Any ideas what this one is meant to look like?

new_dial.webp

Cheers
 
Porteroso
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johnyboy johnyboy
quick update, I decided that I'd buy a toasted dial off ebay and get that repainted, I'll see if the original is cleanable - or just keep it as is in case I ever sell the watch and the new owner wants the "meteorite" dial.

Any ideas what this one is meant to look like?

new_dial.webp

Cheers
Are you certain this is the same size, from the same reference?

And the good dial repainters I would assume would do their own homework. I don't really know. It's so frowned upon here, nobody really gives a ton of info about the really good ones. Most are crappy, and we like it that way. Makes them easy to spot.
 
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