3861 -- Am I Crazy?

So, here’s my tale, and I could definitely use a reality check from the Omega-scenti on here.

I had an automatic Speedy date for around 25 years. 3511.50, reverse panda, Valjoux 7750-based; absolute gorgeous Speedy date. Had it serviced by Omega 4-5 times, kept great time (around +5 day), and importantly to me, the chronograph worked like a champ. I’m a lawyer (sorry…), and since I started long ago, I use the chrono to track my time – so I use the chrono sometimes 20-30 times a day, and sometimes 1-2 times a day tracking something that’s 7-8 hours. Point being, a really good chrono is pretty important in a watch for me (I have another 2 Valjoux 7750-based chronos; not Omegas; they’re both great).

About a month back I decided to trade in the Speedy date and upgrade to a 3861, sapphire sandwich. Have always loved the look, the legibility, and thanks to METAS, I loved the accuracy.

I ordered from a well regarded online AD, watch shows up, I take it to the OB in town to get it sized, start wearing it, and the hour sub-dial is a hot mess from the very first day. It doesn’t reset to zero unless I really jam on the chrono reset button (which is not a definitely not something you want), and then when it does reset, it runs independently of the chronograph being engaged (also not something you want). You can see the issues in these photos.



Thanks to this forum (thank you Archer…), I learn about Speedy hour creep and a certain eccentric screw. I accept that this is a known, solvable issue with a Speedy, but for it to occur on day 1 of ownership wasn’t really acceptable to me. The reputable online AD saw the issues in the photos, agreed, and shipped me out a new, replacement 3861, not questions asked.

Because I’m a bit OCD (not being facetious, I actually have OCD), I notice on the replacement that the hour sub-dial doesn’t reset all the way perfectly to zero. Instead it’s probably 4-5 minutes off. I start looking online, at this forum, and elsewhere, and see this is really common with Speedies, older and brand new. As I ponder this, on day 3 of ownership, I hit the 3861 jackpot, and engaging the chrono – on a full wind or 3-4 hours after a full wind (and, I own several manual wind watches; I know what a full wind is, which for the 3861 was about 50-60 turns for me) causes the movement to seize for about 10-15 seconds. I then realize I have the 3861 “issue,” and at that point the hour sub-dial just starts going crazy. Take a look at these photos, The first one is at 6 minutes, not 36 minutes.



The next one is 9 minutes, not 39 minutes.



The one I after, I will let you guess, is that 3 hours and 47 minutes, or 4 hours and 17 minutes? Not sure I even know.



So, no point in keeping this now 3 day old Speedy. It’s going back as well. And in case you were wondering, it runs 4-5 seconds slow per day….

Should I try for round number 3 and hope this one works? Although, with the frequency I use the chronograph I seem pretty likely to get the 3861 “issue” a lot sooner than most owners.

Should I send the current one off for service for 6-8 weeks? They’ll probably fix the 3861 bushing issue, but who knows what’s up with the hour sub-dial, and I doubt it's perfectly correlated with the 3861 issue…

Should I ask for my money back and just fume?

Or should I regret trading one helluva Speedy date in for, right now, nothing…

Mostly venting (thank you), but will gladly take some advice (or Scotch, I will also take Scotch) from the long term folks on here.

Thanks.

Not from the AD's stock but from Omega themselves. IMHO, that's the only way you're a 100% sure (hopefully) that the 3861 issue has been seen to.

Why not, if you don't ask, you don't get! Otherwise send it to SGUS Secaucus,NJ. Call (877)839-5224 talk to Customer Service and download the return form. You'll need your warranty card right off the bat. That's what I did with mine with Power Reserve issues. Return ETA Sept. 30, I hope!

So sorry to hear about your experience.

If you have your heart set on a Speedy 3861 then either get a replacement or a warranty service. Otherwise you could ask for a refund and use that money to get a different watch. You can always go back to getting the Speedy 3861 in a few years time after all the bugs have been ironed out. Or maybe try getting a NOS Speedy 1861? Yes, it doesn't have the hacking seconds and it's not METAS chronometer rated. But at least with Cal 1861, you know it's a tried and tested movement and with sufficient accuracy for everyday use. I've had my Speedmaster FOIS for two years now and so far it's been a great watch (fingers crossed). Just my 2¢.

Whatever happens, good luck and hope it's all resolved to your satisfaction.

Many thanks @64Wing and @Pazzo. I think I will give another try and request something straight from Omega. I’ll let you know.

@MikiJ Is that something you can do? Buy from the AD but deal directly with Omega on the return?

If you go that route, will they only repair, or can a replacement be an option as well?

Thanks!

Many thanks @DoctorEvil, glad to see there’s another medical professional on here ;-)

We’ll see how easy it is to go replacement again.

The real question I guess for me is if or when the new watches leaving Omega have the 3861 fix implemented.

I don’t begrudge Omega for having a small design error that they have identified and are fixing free of charge. It’s just that if you are a heavy, heavy chrono user it seems like you are more likely to experience the 3861 issuer before you might otherwise send the watch in. I’d like to avoid that.

Thanks!

Obviously it's something you can do as I did. I'm reasonably sure, repair only.
Thus I would ask my AD for a replacement first, then, if no cigar, go the repair route.

Who is the well regarded online dealer you received the watches from, may I ask?

As a newbie I wasn’t exactly sure what the forum rules or etiquette were on discussing specific ADs. Happy to name names if that’s within protocol, and again I don’t believe the AD has done anything at this stage other than immediately replace without a hassle and apologize for sending out a watch that didn’t function correctly when brand new.

OK, if you don't want to name names, may I ask if this online AD has a bricks and mortar store?

For your reference my 3861 shipped directly from Omega this past July. No inherent issues so far.

im not sure if i understand your question or issue on the watch correctly. may i ask if the long center seconds hand and the short minute hand of the right (3 o'clock) chrono subdial reset perfectly align to 12? thanks.

@Screwbacks

It's two different watches. The chronograph seconds hand and chronograph minute timer sub-dial work correctly in both and reset perfectly to 12. It is the chronograph hour timer (6:00 sub-dial) that is not functioning correctly for either.

For the first picture, the chronograph has been reset. As you can see, the hour sub-dial did not reset. It took 3-4 pushes to get it to reset all the way to zero. And then, as is shown in the second picture, the chronograph hour sub-dial would run independently even if the chronograph wasn't engaged. The watch was about one day old. That watch immediately went back.

For the third, fourth, and fifth pictures -- that is the replacement watch. The running of the hour sub-dial for this one bore no real relation to the amount of elapsed time. For example, in the third picture, the chronograph sub-dial is just about to the one-hour mark, while the chronograph has only been engaged six minutes. And then to top it off, engaging the chronograph intermittently causes the entire movement to seize.

Hope that clarified and appreciate the feedback. Although I do note the original post also asked for Scotch in addition to advice 🙁

I picked mine up in May from a UK AD...but for various reasons I have not used it yet. Due to this and other posts I been giving it a proper going over today and so far all so good.... still very happy with it. I plan this to become one of my main watches so plenty of Wrist time for this one soon.

Wear it in good health and enjoy!

I am no expert on the 3861 movement issues but I feel there are three ways to look at this issue. You can send the watch back for refund or repairs. If there is a problem know by Omega with the new 3861, then servicing the watch at this time may yield little or no improvement if they, Omega, have not sorted all of the issues known at this time. If Omega have sorted all the issues then no new piece will be shipped with the same issues. It's possible the seller purchased a batch of early pieces to resell. If you are committed to the 3861 then keep it and work through the issues with Omega or get one directly from the Omega boutique or Omega online sales. The 1861 spent 26 years in production. Hmm. My .02 is buy the 1861 and wait a few years.

Its a shame when you hear these horror stories with new watches.
Takes away all the pleasure and enjoyment from the purchase.