18K cases/solid gold spring bars?

M'Bob · Feb 7, 2015

I got to conferring with a Patek NY employee the other day, and the subject of spring bars came up. He said they endeavor to fit solid gold bars to all of their watches, because stainless bars eventually deform (ovalize) the lug holes on 18K cases. Whether this is due to traction stress from the bands, or rotary abrasion, he could not say.

Anyway, I checked one of my unmolested bumpers, and the original spring bars appear to be brass. On a similar condition Centenary, they are solid gold (had them tested).

Brass I believe is softer than stainless, so this I assume would be comparable to the solid gold. But have any of you seen this lug hole deformation alleged to occur with stainless bars on solid gold cases?

Thanks,

M'Bob

gatorcpa · Feb 7, 2015

M'Bob
Brass I believe is softer than stainless, so this I assume would be comparable to the solid gold. But have any of you seen this lug hole deformation alleged to occur with stainless bars on solid gold cases?

No, but the theory certainly makes sense.

The better gold Rolex models (President) had gold spring bars. Outside of the Centenary (which was originally only a special edition), I'm not sure about Omega.

Like buckles, my guess is that a lot of them got melted back in the 1980's when gold prices got ridiculously high.

Hope this helps,
gatorcpa

Tony C. · Feb 7, 2015

gatorcpa
...back in the 1980's when gold prices got ridiculously high.

You ain't seen nothin' yet. Just wait until the current fiat farce implodes in earnest. Hoo boy.

gatorcpa · Feb 7, 2015

Tony C.
You ain't seen nothin' yet. Just wait until the current fiat farce implodes in earnest. Hoo boy.

I think that we have a long way to go for that. According to "Measuring Worth", the price of gold in 1980 reached $612 per oz. I seem to remember it being as high as $800 for a brief period, but let's go with that.

Based on this analysis, the current value of this peak price today is anywhere from $1,600 to $3,600.

http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/result.php?year_source=1980&amount=612.56&year_result=2013

We're close to the $1,600 figure now, but nowhere near $3,600. The "fiat farce" has been with us since Bretton Woods in 1947 when almost all Western economies took themselves off the gold standard and allowed their currencies to float freely (more or less) against each other.

gatorcpa

Tony C. · Feb 10, 2015

gatorcpa
The "fiat farce" has been with us since Bretton Woods in 1947 when almost all Western economies took themselves off the gold standard and allowed their currencies to float freely (more or less) against each other.

gatorcpa

Yes, though 1971 was the critical date, when Nixon broke the final tie to gold. Since then there has, predictably, been a ridiculous amount of debt created by governments around the world. Now, time is running out. We are in an unprecedented period of economic history – the apex of the biggest credit/debt bubble ever. When it pops – which it will fairly soon – look out below. Whether forced or engineered, there will be a shocking reset, and gold will be revalued much higher.

The post linked below provides some basic insight into why another major crisis is assured. Not only have the very structural problems that caused the 2008 crisis not been reformed, but since then, 57 trillion dollars of further debt has been created around the world. That's trillion, much of which will never be repaid.

http://www.ftense.com/2015/02/a-look-behind-57-trillion-increase-in.html

Here's an excerpt from a post (linked below) that also summarizes the dire situation well:

Debt, Civic Decay & Global Disorder
The core elements propelling this Crisis – debt, civic decay, and global disorder – were obvious over a decade before the financial meltdown catalyst sparked this ongoing two decade long Crisis. With the following issues unresolved, the shadow of this crisis has only grown larger and more ominous:

Debt

The national debt has risen by $7 trillion (64%) to $18.1 trillion since 2009 and continues to accelerate by $2.3 billion per day, on track to surpass $20 trillion before Obama leaves office and $25 trillion by 2019.

The national debt as a percentage of GDP is currently 103% (it would be 106% if the BEA hadn’t decided to positively “adjust” GDP up by $500 billion last year). It is on course to reach 120% by 2019. Rogoff and Reinhart have documented the fact countries that surpass 90% experience economic turmoil, decline, and ultimately currency collapse and debt default.
Despite the housing collapse and hundreds of billions in mortgage, credit card, auto, and corporate debt being written off, dumped on the backs of taxpayers and hidden on the Federal Reserve balance sheet, total credit market debt has reached a new high of $58 trillion.

Harvard professor Laurence Kotlikoff has been a lone voice telling the truth about the true level of unfunded promises hidden in the CBO numbers. The unfunded social welfare liabilities in excess of $200 trillion for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Obamacare are nothing but a massive future tax increase on younger and unborn generations. Kotlikoff explains what would be required to pay these obligations:

“To honor these obligations we could (a) raise all federal taxes, immediately and permanently, by 57%, (b) cut all federal spending, apart from interest on the debt, by 37%, immediately and permanently, or (c) do some combination of (a) and (b).”

The level of taxation and/or Federal Reserve created inflation necessary to honor these politician promises is too large to be considered feasible. Therefore, these promises, made to get corrupt political hacks elected to public office, will be defaulted upon.

http://www.theburningplatform.com/2...the-shadow-of-crisis-has-not-passed-part-two/

Bill Sohne · Apr 24, 2017

Hi

I really wanted to know more about spring bars....

just a thought

bill

Kja · Apr 25, 2017

I guess once we decent into chaos, we will only have stainless springbars?

watch3s · Apr 25, 2017

Wonder if its more of an issue that people wear their watch too tight. If the gold is as soft as they claim, and some one is constantly tugging on the wrist and flexing it to get the watch in a better position I can see where they were going. I am not a materials engineer or scientist but we've seen this debate over on the rolex forums with what causes the bracelet stretch. Its wear and tear with dirt for that one. Especially for the jubilees.

MikiJ · Apr 25, 2017

Bill Sohne
Hi

I really wanted to know more about spring bars....

just a thought

bill

Hard to believe that on the way to going broke I had a Vacheron 47200/1J, Day, Date Power Reserve, with 18kt. spring bars. I bought it from a collector in Canada and in addition to all the original boxes and papers, he included the long Vacheron alligator strap with an 18 kt. deployant buckle he wore with it plus the original Vacheron alligator strap and 18kt. tang buckle. Such a deal 😀

Bill Sohne · Apr 25, 2017

MikiJ
Hard to believe that on the way to going broke I had a Vacheron 47200/1J, Day, Date Power Reserve, with 18kt. spring bars. I bought it from a collector in Canada and in addition to all the original boxes and papers, he included the long Vacheron alligator strap with an 18 kt. deployant buckle he wore with it plus the original Vacheron alligator strap and 18kt. tang buckle. Such a deal 😀

sounds like your on skidd row......

broke and wearing a VC !!

I can think of worse ways to go !

Good Hunting

bill

BartH · Apr 25, 2017

Springbars in my gold Datejust. I wonder what they're made of.

gatorcpa · Apr 25, 2017

BartH
I wonder what they're made of.

Unobtanium? 😀😉
gatorcpa

MikiJ · Apr 25, 2017

Bill Sohne
sounds like your on skidd row......

broke and wearing a VC !!

I can think of worse ways to go !

Good Hunting

bill

No more VCs. Mickey's strictly a Speedmaster "Mouse" 😀

michael22 · Apr 25, 2017

SS insert in the holes would stop any wear.
Gold spring bars would be the ideal size to carry around for spending, if fiat currencies lose favour.

U5512 · Apr 26, 2017

My "red gold" 1803 came with original gold bracelet and gold spring bars.

mondodec · Apr 27, 2017

Yes, to address your question, the spring bars on one of my first edition Centenary models are also 18k. And yes to the second part in terms of stainless spring bars enlarging the exposed holes of some early Connies largely by rotary abrasion. Over the years I've seen some holes that have become decidedly oval after the original brass having been replaced by stainless examples.

I have seen some early examples of untouched Constellations with 18k bars, but not one after the introduction of the non exposed holes.

In respect to comments about impending global financial doom, I think it's time to move back to the farm. At least I can grown my own, and maybe even have a crack at producing food too!

M'Bob
I got to conferring with a Patek NY employee the other day, and the subject of spring bars came up. He said they endeavor to fit solid gold bars to all of their watches, because stainless bars eventually deform (ovalize) the lug holes on 18K cases. Whether this is due to traction stress from the bands, or rotary abrasion, he could not say.

Anyway, I checked one of my unmolested bumpers, and the original spring bars appear to be brass. On a similar condition Centenary, they are solid gold (had them tested).

Brass I believe is softer than stainless, so this I assume would be comparable to the solid gold. But have any of you seen this lug hole deformation alleged to occur with stainless bars on solid gold cases?

Thanks,

M'Bob

M'Bob · Apr 27, 2017

mondodec
Yes, to address your question, the spring bars on one of my first edition Centenary models are also 18k. And yes to the second part in terms of stainless spring bars enlarging the exposed holes of some early Connies largely by rotary abrasion. Over the years I've seen some holes that have become decidedly oval after the original brass having been replaced by stainless examples.

I have seen some early examples of untouched Constellations with 18k bars, but not one after the introduction of the non exposed holes.

Finally. Many thanks.

18K cases/solid gold spring bars?

M'Bob

gatorcpa

Tony C.

gatorcpa

Tony C.

Bill Sohne

Kja

watch3s

MikiJ

Bill Sohne

BartH

gatorcpa

MikiJ

michael22

U5512

mondodec

M'Bob

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