13ZN Chronographs Inquiries and Information.

alphabeta81 · Nov 29, 2019

oinkitt
Since you have 10 years of experience owning chronographs one would have thought you would have seen a number of examples that have damaged outer tracts... especially on none waterproof models. I suspect the moisture tracks to the outside of the plexi and then damages the outer dial.

Trust me, I have indeed seen many dozens with this damage.

My question is specifically - how does it happen. I have heard your guess as well. I have not heard a good definitive answer. But thank you for your input.

divetime · Nov 30, 2019

just think the manufacturing process backwards. A metal plate is galvanized and covered by a clear protection lacquer. Printing of scales is added in this coat of lacquer. With aging process the coat of lacquer gets damaged (possibly due to its thickness, quality, light and humidity exposition). So the printing gets lost and the galvanized ground (mostly silver) starts to oxidize.

alphabeta81 · Nov 30, 2019

divetime
just think the manufacturing process backwards. A metal plate is galvanized and covered by a clear protection lacquer. Printing of scales is added in this coat of lacquer. With aging process the coat of lacquer gets damaged (possibly due to its thickness, quality, light and humidity exposition). So the printing gets lost and the galvanized ground (mostly silver) starts to oxidize.

Yes, but this would imply that the lacquer starts to damage and then the printing gets lost. This is a consistent process that I have seen many times.

My question was - how can the dial and its lacquer seem to have minimal to no wear at all, as if the watch has been very well preserved, and yet the outer track printing start to get lost? What am I not understanding here?

minutenrohr · Dec 2, 2019

https://www.ebay.de/itm/143458746058?ul_noapp=true

...more and more in tolerable price regions...

Mark020 · Dec 2, 2019

What a joker. I think he will sell at cost plus a grand

Mark020 · Dec 5, 2019

minutenrohr
https://www.ebay.de/itm/143458746058?ul_noapp=true

...more and more in tolerable price regions...

Now NLA so I guess sold

minutenrohr · Dec 9, 2019

https://www.ebay.de/itm/254447588184?ul_noapp=true

alphabeta81 · Dec 9, 2019

minutenrohr
https://www.ebay.de/itm/254447588184?ul_noapp=true

While I usually don't mind if the hands are not quite correct (the dial and case being correct matter more to me), but the lack of a counterpoise on the chronograph seconds hand is really throwing the look off for me even more than the wear on the dial

m neuman · Feb 12, 2020

great info

haggler · Feb 15, 2020

Hello all, I’ve been following along for a couple of years trying to learn from your wisdom before jumping in with my inquiry seeking advice. How far to go with this 13ZN-12/Sommatore/Doppia Lancetta? I have picked up on the importance of original dials and even with my limited understanding I’m fairly confident that this is not original (but could be talked out of that in short order). And, therein lies the quandary. Full restoration including the dial or skip the dial and restore the movement, hands, etc? I know this conversation somewhat happened with DNEM’s inquiry November last but this is a bit different because of the dial.
Thanks in advance for your input.

minutenrohr · Feb 15, 2020

This seems to be the same redial as these two. I would leave it that way, because a restored dial always looks much too new, whereas the watch is from the 40s. At least the luminous material looks like radium...
I also think it's better if there are several (re)dials of the same kind. Then it could be a "service dial" - even if it is unlikely in this case; because of the length of the hands, which does not match the dial.

Radiumpassion · Feb 15, 2020

I could live with that dial, and I would just focus on getting the correct hands setup. Looks like there is a broken pivot for the sweep second hand to. @haggler

haggler · Feb 17, 2020

Thanks to both of you for your guidance in that respect which leads to the next nagging question I’ve had a concern about and that would be shipping this, or any item of high value item for that matter, with confidence that it gets where it’s supposed to go without loss or damage. Scares me to even think about it. Anyone been through this process with Saint-Emier?
Again, thanks from a novice

Syrte · Feb 18, 2020

@haggler a number of people, even experienced ones, bring their items to Saint Imier by hand. People’s level of tolerance with shipment risks varies even when they’re experienced.

Ps those redials look really nice actually. The edges of the subdial and the printing are so clean, I’d be easy to convince they’re service dials- even though I know nothing about those 13ZN dials.

haggler · Feb 28, 2020

Thank you Syrte for that reply and now I'll let my ignorance show and ask about "service dials" since they've been mentioned twice now.

minutenrohr · Feb 29, 2020

I would be happy if these dials were correct for this reference. Even if I don't collect watches for money, mine would be worth several thousands more. Here are some nice examples with matching dials:

http://watchexpertise.com/oldlonginespassion/Longines_Passion/sommatore.html

And as usual: Look for the correct lenght of the hands and in this special case the font of "Longines". Not to forget the dial feet, which are silvered (not coppered or copper)...

Mark020 · Mar 26, 2020

Somebody was lucky: https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auc...longines-double-hand-ref-5699-stainless-steel EDIT: price incl 25% fee

LarryG · Mar 26, 2020

I watched, but take a look at the photos of same watch offered by Sothebys in November or so. Much more revealing, and the top pusher tube looks replaced....
Not bad, but I don’t think it was a steal.

Mark020 · Mar 26, 2020

Well: I could live with it for that price 😀

alphabeta81 · Mar 26, 2020

LarryG
I watched, but take a look at the photos of same watch offered by Sothebys in November or so. Much more revealing, and the top pusher tube looks replaced....
Not bad, but I don’t think it was a steal.

the November catalog picture had an angle and heavy flash. I asked for the live pictures then and the top pusher tube did have the wear you see in the picture from the one sold last night. Not replaced.
Same watch indeed. Nothing changed.

the $31,250 CHF price is INCLUSIVE of premium. That’s the total. Pretty good deal I would say! (I didn’t win it)