Omega 30TS 18 Jewel Military 1942 - estate purchase

DavidA · Jun 25, 2023

I was on the way to buying a British AM 6b/159 WW2 Omega pilots watch last week. This literally crossed my path from an estate sale, so I jumped in an bought it blind from the face photo without the benefit of a pic of the movement or the movement number.

It arrived and happy to say that the movement number 9703579 dates to 1942, in addition the movement is 18 jewel rather the 16 jewel movement fitted to 6b/159 RAF Government purchases.

The watch due to the military leather band with the backing pad has suffered minimal wear to the rear case which is un-numbered and in perfect condition. Internally the case back has the case number rather than a contract number and a hyerogylphic which is similar to Russian acceptance small arms in period.

The face is similar the 6b/159 RAF contract face but with lumed hands and a second hand with a red pointer.

The outer track is segmented 5-60 in 5 second blocks. Overall the watch and the movement is in good original condition

I would be interested to know if anyone has seen anything similar. Due to the Omega archives being closed, I can't apply for a factory letter or gain any further detail.

Thanks in advance.

.

watchyouwant · Jun 25, 2023

Fantasy Repainted dial and some unmatching hands. What do you mean by "... Russian acceptance of small Arms ? "

DavidA · Jun 25, 2023

watchyouwant
Fantasy Repainted dial and some unmatching hands. What do you mean by "... Russian acceptance of small Arms ? "

How interesting, I suppose fantasy made leather strap and wear, so tell me what would you expect a face to look like on a 18 jewel 1942 Omega, the digits are precise to 6b/159, if you were to create a face for a watch, then better to use blued hands found on an 6b/159. What you say makes no sense, there are identical faces with different hands to be found, are these all fantasy.
My observation on the oblong bisected marking inside the case back is based on some 40 years of working with Soviet smallarms and their re-issuing marks. Happy to provide you with a tutorial if the subject interests you.

X350 XJR · Jun 25, 2023

Enjoy your fantasy, isn't that what fantasies are all about anyway?

DON · Jun 25, 2023

Why do they always have to argue when given advise

DavidA · Jun 25, 2023

X350 XJR
Enjoy your fantasy, isn't that what fantasies are all about anyway?

Absolutely, after all I didn't pay $3500 for a faked 6b/159 with a re-engraved case back

DavidA · Jun 25, 2023

DON
Why do they always have to argue when given advise

Very simply because it was a statement rather than advice with no explanation as to why it could be regarded as a fanatasy.

redpcar · Jun 25, 2023

"Russian acceptance small arms in period."
This is new to me. Can you send a link so I can read up?
It is a strange stamp on the inside case back that I have never seen. This is what I have seen on the 6B/159.

(from the web)
Movement is a 30T2 SC and is copper plated unlike the 16 jewel RAF examples.

flyingdoormat · Jun 26, 2023

Not sure why you chose to buy this over the 6B/159 which I assume you would have had time to verify as correct. Instead you have something different altogether. Maybe price related?

mac_omega · Jun 26, 2023

@DavidA, what you have here has nothing to do with a ref. 2292 or any other UK military watches.

You have got a ref. 2242 with correct case and movement but a completely wrongly reprinted/restored dial.

The ref. 2242 was ordered and used by the R.C.A.F. but was also available and sold to the private/public market.

here are some samples of known correct dials:

the next without "non magnetic" and the less common copper coloured numerals and seconds track:

and the bright version with printed numerals and tracks:

and a bright version with radially orientated numerals - note: this is a correctly reprinted dial

hope this helps you understand what you have and how wrongly your dial has been redone.

watchyouwant · Jun 26, 2023

D DavidA
How interesting, I suppose fantasy made leather strap and wear, so tell me what would you expect a face to look like on a 18 jewel 1942 Omega, the digits are precise to 6b/159, if you were to create a face for a watch, then better to use blued hands found on an 6b/159. What you say makes no sense, there are identical faces with different hands to be found, are these all fantasy.
My observation on the oblong bisected marking inside the case back is based on some 40 years of working with Soviet smallarms and their re-issuing marks. Happy to provide you with a tutorial if the subject interests you.

Oh, yes, please ! Tutorial in Russian Small Arms would be very much appreciated. Love to learn new things .... In the moment this education might be urgently needed by Putin.

DavidA · Jun 26, 2023

redpcar
"Russian acceptance small arms in period."
This is new to me. Can you send a link so I can read up?
It is a strange stamp on the inside case back that I have never seen. This is what I have seen on the 6B/159.

(from the web)
Movement is a 30T2 SC and is copper plated unlike the 16 jewel RAF examples.

Here is a link to a relatively new web article on post war Soviet Refurb markings, towards the end you will find the geometric shapes used to identify refurb depots. Most of this has gained collectors interest since quantities of WW2 era Russian small arms have been sold by the Ukraine. The marks also appear on other refurbished small arms such a the Colt 1911's supplied to Imperial Russia through Great Britain during WW1, which is where it came into my small arms researches following the fall of the Berlin Wall over thirty years ago.

Repair depots & refurnishment facilities markings | m9130.info

There is no suggestion that the marking on the watch has any connection to Russia only the similarity of a marking I have not seen on a watch before.

From what I understand there two types of plating on the 38 Jewel movement, the earlier being prone to discolouration.

DavidA · Jun 26, 2023

flyingdoormat
Not sure why you chose to buy this over the 6B/159 which I assume you would have had time to verify as correct. Instead you have something different altogether. Maybe price related?

Yes it was, and for a completely different reason, as I wanted a 1940's period watch to use, so rather than buying a very collectible 6B/159 to wear in a WW2 period car, this came up, I was unable to verify the face or the movement number prior to purchase, however for the price it suited me well enough to wear without worrying about damaging a more valuable historic watch.

DavidA · Jun 26, 2023

watchyouwant
Oh, yes, please ! Tutorial in Russian Small Arms would be very much appreciated. Love to learn new things .... In the moment this education might be urgently needed by Putin.

Here you are link to a very good web article on post war Soviet refurbishment marks, the section on the geometric shapes is towards the end of the article. Enjoy !
Repair depots & refurnishment facilities markings | m9130.info

DavidA · Jun 26, 2023

mac_omega
@DavidA, what you have here has nothing to do with a ref. 2292 or any other UK military watches.

You have got a ref. 2242 with correct case and movement but a completely wrongly reprinted/restored dial.

The ref. 2242 was ordered and used by the R.C.A.F. but was also available and sold to the private/public market.

here are some samples of known correct dials:

the next without "non magnetic" and the less common copper coloured numerals and seconds track:

and the bright version with printed numerals and tracks:

and a bright version with radially orientated numerals - note: this is a correctly reprinted dial

hope this helps you understand what you have and how wrongly your dial has been redone.

Good morning, excellent thank you, so very good to see original examples as a datum point to work from. I would hope that when the Omega archives re-open that I will be able to find out at least which country it was supplied to, and perhaps the dial type. Following on from your advice, at that stage I may well have it restored to the original format, if I could find out what that was.

Omega 30TS 18 Jewel Military 1942 - estate purchase

DavidA

watchyouwant

DavidA

X350 XJR

DON

DavidA

DavidA

redpcar

flyingdoormat

mac_omega

watchyouwant

DavidA

DavidA

DavidA

DavidA

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