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Your thoughts on hour-hand misalignments? (+pics)

JimInOz
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My thoughts?

If a watchmaker (professional or amateur) can't get the hands correctly aligned they should go back to changing batteries in quartz watches at the mall.

It's a rather simple task.

For a time only movement just set the hour hand anywhere you like. Then advance the hour hand to 12 and lightly position the minute hand directly above but don't set it yet.
Very gently advance the hands and stop when the hour hand is aligned 90º at 3, check minute hands is at 12, then repeat for 6 and 9 hour positions. I find it easier to see misalignment at 3, 6 and 9. If it's not perfect, lift the minute and and start again.
When happy with the alignment, press the minute hand and check again.

For a day/date movement, it's a bit different.
With no hands fitted, advance the movement a couple of revolutions so you understand where the day/date changes occur.
As the day (usually first) clicks over, set the hour hand at 12. Then rotate 24 hours and check that date/day advance as expected, then set the minute hand as described above.

We won't get into chronograph Seconds/Minutes/Hours counter hands, that's a whole new test of skill.
 
Leviathan
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JimInOz JimInOz
My thoughts?

If a watchmaker (professional or amateur) can't get the hands correctly aligned they should go back to changing batteries in quartz watches at the mall.

It's a rather simple task.

For a time only movement just set the hour hand anywhere you like. Then advance the hour hand to 12 and lightly position the minute hand directly above but don't set it yet.
Very gently advance the hands and stop when the hour hand is aligned 90º at 3, check minute hands is at 12, then repeat for 6 and 9 hour positions. I find it easier to see misalignment at 3, 6 and 9. If it's not perfect, lift the minute and and start again.
When happy with the alignment, press the minute hand and check again.

For a day/date movement, it's a bit different.
With no hands fitted, advance the movement a couple of revolutions so you understand where the day/date changes occur.
As the day (usually first) clicks over, set the hour hand at 12. Then rotate 24 hours and check that date/day advance as expected, then set the minute hand as described above.

We won't get into chronograph Seconds/Minutes/Hours counter hands, that's a whole new test of skill.
Agree with this line of reasoning, and it does also bother me.

Unfortunately, I’ve purchased several watches with this issue, prior to actively checking for 100% alignment. Now it’s the only thing I look for. Couldn’t care less about scratches, dust, etc.
 
Lukeeesteve
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@JimInOz … I did have a vintage watch that had a sloppy hour wheel…. It aligned at 12 but not at some other hours of the day… drove me crazy till I realized why I could not get it right ::facepalm1::
 
Archer
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Lukeeesteve Lukeeesteve
@JimInOz … I did have a vintage watch that had a sloppy hour wheel…. It aligned at 12 but not at some other hours of the day… drove me crazy till I realized why I could not get it right ::facepalm1::

If the hands are always moving in one direction, advancing the time, then the backlash won't cause the problem you are referring to because it will always be in a position of being taken up, until you turn the hands backwards. So if that is what you mean by a "sloppy" hour wheel, then this won't be the cause.

Again, this will most likely be a misaligned dial causing it to not line up anywhere but 12.

Cheers, Al
 
Leviathan
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Archer Archer
If the hands are always moving in one direction, advancing the time, then the backlash won't cause the problem you are referring to because it will always be in a position of being taken up, until you turn the hands backwards. So if that is what you mean by a "sloppy" hour wheel, then this won't be the cause.

Again, this will most likely be a misaligned dial causing it to not line up anywhere but 12.

Cheers, Al
Thanks AI, that’s really helpful.

All my misaligned watches do actually line up perfectly when the crown is rotated backwards (the backlash you are referring to). Which makes me realize why such an issue could be so common.

I’m assuming the proper way the hands had to be installed was by ‘making up’ the gap between the placement and the backlash.

Is that correct? Because I’ve seen threads where service centers have refused to work on such misalignment, under the guise of ‘normal gear slack’ or whatnot.
 
Archer
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Leviathan Leviathan
Thanks AI, that’s really helpful.

All my misaligned watches do actually line up perfectly when the crown is rotated backwards (the backlash you are referring to). Which makes me realize why such an issue could be so common.

I’m assuming the proper way the hands had to be installed was by ‘making up’ the gap between the placement and the backlash.

Is that correct? Because I’ve seen threads where service centers have refused to work on such misalignment, under the guise of ‘normal gear slack’ or whatnot.

Jim has outlined the sort of standard procedure for installing hands - you set the hour hand forward to the 12 marker, then install the minute hand. This will take up the slack at the time of installation, so it won't be a factor during normal running of the watch. There are variations on this procedure of course, so for example in school I was taught to install the minute hand with the hour hand at 9, but it makes no difference really.

Now if a watchmaker accidentally bumps the crown backwards a bit say between setting the hour hand on and setting the minute hand, then they have now made the slack an issue, but that would show up right away when the hands are aligned at midnight or noon. This is why Omega's procedures have you install the minute hand with the hour hand at 12, but only after moving the hour hand back to 11, and then moving it forward again, to ensure that the slack is taken up. This is the way I do it, and they come out properly aligned, if the dial is properly aligned.

Honestly, this slack is rarely part of the problem when it comes to hand alignment - this causes of misalignment are often not well understood, and sometimes that includes watchmakers...
 
Lukeeesteve
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Archer Archer
If the hands are always moving in one direction, advancing the time, then the backlash won't cause the problem you are referring to because it will always be in a position of being taken up, until you turn the hands backwards. So if that is what you mean by a "sloppy" hour wheel, then this won't be the cause.

Again, this will most likely be a misaligned dial causing it to not line up anywhere but 12.

Cheers, Al

I actually wish I still had that watch with me. I would send it to have it properly fixed / diagnosed to see what was going on.
Iirc, the movement had the slop but not evenly.
Thanks you the replies you have been sending to some of my comments. I love reading and learning. I have so much more to learn about how these things work.
 
Leviathan
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Lukeeesteve Lukeeesteve
Thanks you the replies you have been sending to some of my comments. I love reading and learning. I have so much more to learn about how these things work.
Archer really is very generous with his time, we all owe him for the lessons he teaches on this forum.

@Archer , thank you.
 
Twocats
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I did not think about it so it did not bother me, Now I am thinking about it, I find it bothers me..... It's like something that can't be unseen.
 
Dan S
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How do people feel about date turnover timing errors? And what about magnifier alignment? ::stirthepot::
Edited:
 
JwRosenthal
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Dan S Dan S
How do people feel about date turnover timing errors? And what about magnifier alignment? ::stirthepot::
Or the Omega logo being perfectly right side up on the crystal? My watchmaker installed it upside down on my Speedmaster when he changed my crystal 🤦
Perhaps it’s like a horse shoe and being upside down is a good luck thing.
 
JimInOz
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Dan S Dan S
How do people feel about date turnover timing errors? And what about magnifier alignment? ::stirthepot::

Didn't we have someone who was worried his watch was defective because the date kept changing at 11: 59 (midday) instead of 23:59?
 
Evitzee
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Most Speedmaster backs don't align themselves, they are usually off by 20 or 30 degrees....are people 'triggered' by that? And how about crowns that screw down, they rarely align themselves.
 
Dan S
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JimInOz JimInOz
Didn't we have someone who was worried his watch was defective because the date kept changing at 11: 59 (midday) instead of 23:59?

😁

I think we have also seen people complaining that their minute hand doesn't line up with precisely with a minute marker when the sweep second hand passes 12.
 
ghce
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JimInOz JimInOz
Didn't we have someone who was worried his watch was defective because the date kept changing at 11: 59 (midday) instead of 23:59?

Last year I bought a quartz chronograph watch from a chap who apologized to me that the watch was faulty as the dates changed at the wrong time 12.00 AM as opposed to the PM. I am pleased to say that the almost new watch was in perfect working order 😁.
 
JwRosenthal
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ghce ghce
Last year I bought a quartz chronograph watch from a chap who apologized to me that the watch was faulty as the dates changed at the wrong time 12.00 AM as opposed to the PM. I am pleased to say that the almost new watch was in perfect working order 😁.
I actually had a 7750 watch that flipped the day at midnight and date at noon. That was an aggravation I had to have fixed.
 
Archer
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
I actually had a 7750 watch that flipped the day at midnight and date at noon. That was an aggravation I had to have fixed.

Clearly someone not familiar with the movement did that. It's very easy to sync the day and date on these, and there's actually a guide of sorts right on the movement to help you place the day and date driving wheels to make that happen.

Here you can see a groove milled into the main plate, and the day indicator driving wheel has it's finger pointed at that groove. The date indicator driving wheel then has it's finger pointing at the post of the intermediate calendar wheel:



That's all you need to do to sync these - very simple.

Cheers, Al
 
L
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Some of my mid-high watches (JLC, OMEGA, etc.,) also have this issue, off by 3-4 minutes. And when I sent them back thru my AD, I always got the answers , "within manufacturer's spec" , this kind of shXt. Really bothers me.
 
Foo2rama
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L linster
Some of my mid-high watches (JLC, OMEGA, etc.,) also have this issue, off by 3-4 minutes. And when I sent them back thru my AD, I always got the answers , "within manufacturer's spec" , this kind of shXt. Really bothers me.
Can I interest you in some Quartz watches?
 
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