Your advice please on this 105.012 as possible project

Ron_W · Mar 12, 2024

Hi OF,
looking at this 105.012 66 coming up for auction ( dibs ! 😀 ) which has very good cosmetics to me, sharp case, good bezel and i think correct fat & low pushers. Lume looks good but the dial is a bit grey maybe ? Looking from the side the damage all appears to be on the crystal although some spots can be seen in the seconds register.
But......also signs of water entering / corrosion looking at the movement. Is the movement still worth a revision and what is the black pin sticking out above the balance wheel ?
Is the spring out of the piton or broken off ? If yes, full balance wheels can stil be bought for a c 321 i think ?

Did i miss anything, and thanks for your imput !

Ron_W · Mar 12, 2024

Bracelet is much later of course but i dont mind that.

Aludic · Mar 12, 2024

Briefly in between other things: this isn't a 145.012, but a 105.012. As you've already pointed out it comes with the nice fat neck pushers, sharp CB case and a good DON. Later bracelet which has some value. Movement appears to be in dire need of a service as testified by the caseback seal, or rather, what's left of it. 😉

That said, I would be worried by the rust around the pushers, on the dust cover and the rusted hands; this watch has seen a level of water ingress and could have more issues hiding inside it as a result of that. Knowing that sourcing 321 parts is still possible, but certainly not easy nor cheap, this is quite risky. For me, the price would need to be quite low to be comfortable with the risk/reward level this watch would come with.

Ron_W · Mar 12, 2024

Aludic
Briefly in between other things: this isn't a 145.012, but a 105.012

Thanks !! and i indeed got my numbers mixed up but now corrected. And that gasket is melted cheese indeed 😲
I should expect rust everywere then, so replacement parts could be a big part. I`ll budget 2000,- for service and see where it will go.
But i do love that case, and lume !

Davidt · Mar 12, 2024

Can you view in person? You could spend hours comparing photos from different angles to ascertain what is on the crystal and what’s on the dial, and still not get it right. Five minutes with it in your hands will tell you all you need to know.

It could be a killer watch once serviced but it could have issues that aren’t immediately apparent, particularly case corrosion or blemishes to the dial given the overall condition. If you cant view in person you’ll need to determine your price based on best and worse case scenario, then decide subjectively where your gambling/tipping point is.

Donn Chambers · Mar 12, 2024

With that obvious rust damage and tired movement, I wouldn’t take this on as a project unless I already had a donor 321 movement I could use for parts.

Spacefruit · Mar 12, 2024

I imagine this watch, if seen by those who like this sort of thing, will sell for about 20% more than a cool head would pay.

Ron_W · Mar 12, 2024

Davidt
Five minutes with it in your hands will tell you all you need to know.

very true, but unfortunatly it is not within viewing range..

Spacefruit
sell for about 20% more

I will try and keep a cool head then , but you say it is not for you in this state? In this condition max 5000 euro excluding service costs ? I am asking my watchmaker for how much he is willing to take this on.

Dan S · Mar 12, 2024

After comparing photos quickly, I think that quite a bit of the spotting is actually on the dial.

Ron_W · Mar 12, 2024

Dan S
After comparing photos quickly, I think that quite a bit of the spotting is actually on the dial.

I will have a better look, thanks ! I know it is not pristine, but neither is my budget so i have to accept some aging etc. But not neccesarely a drowned movement.....

In the meantime i found that the pin i asked about is a safety to prevent the spring to catch on the compas in case of shock.

hansaboy · Mar 12, 2024

Well… we all get very exited every time a Speedy comes up for an auction?

This one has a lot of potential!

A lovely case and caseback.
Original crown and the desirable pushers.

The problem with this watch is that it has ”taken a bath” and water/moisture has entered.
The movement has taken some damage, with lots of rust that we can see on the pictures, but we can't see further.
And spare parts may become a bit troublesome?

And as David wrote - the dial could be very nice, but possible marks/scratches/damages are a bit hard to assess?
The hands have discoloration, and the leakage might have caused this, and maybe the dial has also been affected?
There is also an engraving on the back side of the lug.

This watch does need to be assessed on site (if you don't want to gamble??).

Erhhh… and I have a 3 hour ride to the auction house!

😀

Ron_W · Mar 12, 2024

hansaboy
I have a 3 hour ride to the auction house!

What is your hourly fee 😀 Hans ? Plus lunch of course en route !!
Thank you for your view and it is a gamble as always. Which makes it exciting ! I like poker but not gambling, so i study on risk - reward here and believe you can always restore a movement, at costs ! , but you can never restore a ruined case or dial, and a replacement dial for this ref is probably more expensive then a movement service, or even a donor 321.
I think it is a good watch for its age so i will set my budget and see what happens. Projects are more fun than an AD purchase 🤨

hansaboy · Mar 12, 2024

Once again...
I have written this a few times by now...😗

Have you looked at the private sales here on the Forum?
There are a few lovely Speedys there!
And the watch that you are asking about now might cost more (when serviced and corrected etc) than the ones for sale??

hansaboy · Mar 12, 2024

@Ron_W
PM sent!
😀

steversaurus · Mar 12, 2024

Looks like it has all the correct bits other than the bracelet. The case also looks decently sharp. I would also expect a pretty hefty bill from the watchmaker judging from the movement pics.

Ron_W · Mar 12, 2024

Yes, i just received my watchmakers positive scenario for this and that starts at 2k without any special parts. Starts.... i didnt bother to ask for the negative scenario....

and thanks @hansaboy , i will look at the sales section of course

bazelot · Mar 12, 2024

Ron_W
Yes, i just received my watchmakers positive scenario for this and that starts at 2k without any special parts. Starts.... i didnt bother to ask for the negative scenario....

and thanks @hansaboy , i will look at the sales section of course

Why so much? It looks like the water damage is contained to only one side on the extreme edge. At best there is no further damage to movement in which case it would be a regular service for a321 movement.

Dan S · Mar 12, 2024

Ron_W
Yes, i just received my watchmakers positive scenario for this and that starts at 2k without any special parts. Starts.... i didnt bother to ask for the negative scenario....

2k what?

pdxleaf · Mar 12, 2024

Here's one more opinion from the peanut gallery.

There's a lot of crap that gets posted by people asking if it's worth buying. Nearly always I think no. In your case, it's not a bad looker. The case, bezel and lume are really nice, so much so that they compensate for and even shine through the rusty hands and likely little marks in the dial. This might never be a collector's excellent watch, but I hate to say it, I like it. It's got a certain faded glory look to it.

But the price has to be right. Unfortunately, you're likely up against people without your discipline who will likely not think about the movement and only see the best bits.

Projects can be very expensive and frustrating years after the quick burst of excitement from winning an auction.

Good luck if you decide to go for it.

Edit - That's a lot of mildew and mold. There's no fixing that:

Plus, there could be case rust inside and under the bezel, which would make the nice case and bezel scrap. It's a shame but this is probably too far gone unless it's free to a good home.

Winston_Smith · Mar 12, 2024

Given the stains on the dial and movement bits, my near-novice advice would be to let it go, unless it's a steal. 95% of the time I plan to embark on a 'project' I end up giving up before bidding. That's because these projects are way too costly if they concern addressing a permanent damage, if not impossible. You may especially risk the authenticity if the dial has been damaged. And imagine getting this watch and not being able to fix the stuff you wanted to, now you are living with an unwanted flatmate that you don't want to come across while grabbing a glass of water at the kitchen... Every veteran on this forum would probably be familiar with this story.

Unless you are not buying to sell,
Unless the price is a steal,
Let it go.

Your advice please on this 105.012 as possible project

Ron_W

Ron_W

Aludic

Ron_W

Davidt

Donn Chambers

Spacefruit

Ron_W

Dan S

Ron_W

hansaboy

Ron_W

hansaboy

hansaboy

steversaurus

Ron_W

bazelot

Dan S

pdxleaf

Winston_Smith

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