WRUD (Drinking) Today?

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Hey guys, wanted to ask how you feel about age statements on bottles. More and more I’m finding for my tastes, they are almost irrelevant. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have a 20 yr old bottle of Scotch, I’m just saying I’m not sure I can appreciate the taste more than some others with no age statement.

I think the Nikki brand really opened this thought up for me. It’s so smooth (without even a hint of being watered down) and complex, yet no age statement at all.

I'm going to have to agree with the great Ralfy on this one and say if you're paying for top shelf scotch whisky there should be an age statement. If there isn't one there's a transparency problem.

Nikka knows what they are doing and are probably charging too much, but I agree it's delicious. Was gifted a bottle of Coffey and was really blown away, also enjoy Taketsuru a lot.
 
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@Rman I get it, on the same page as I think it’s a transparency issue too. The Dalmore King Alex I posted was over 300 dollars after tax, its fantastic, but no age statement there either.

I don’t know, maybe I just have cheap taste, but they aren’t cheap to buy lol:

Redbreast Lustau - nas
Crown XR - nas
Dalmore King Alex III - nas
Nikki from the barrel - nas
 
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Hey guys, wanted to ask how you feel about age statements on bottles. More and more I’m finding for my tastes, they are almost irrelevant. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have a 20 yr old bottle of Scotch, I’m just saying I’m not sure I can appreciate the taste more than some others with no age statement.

I think the Nikki brand really opened this thought up for me. It’s so smooth (without even a hint of being watered down) and complex, yet no age statement at all.

Super complex issue... traditionally older was always interpreted as better even when shown otherwise in vertical tastings.

Lets start with the basics.. what is a 12 year old... For this discussion we are talking about single malt, non single casks releases. Single cask, and cask strength has some different rules. The age only refers to time in a barrel, the time in a bottle or steel vat are not counted.

Being in a cask longer traditionally means mellower and more complex, this is for a few reasons.... more angel share (evaporation of alcohol) which condenses the flavor and more exposure to the oak. Remember traditionally Scotch is reusing ancient large barrels (they are by their own words cheap) and barrels are expensive, the older a barrel is the less oak it will impart into the distillate. Additionally large barrels offer less surface contact with the oak per volume. Older expressions are more expensive as they are lower alcohol content in the older barrels and have to be stored for years which adds to cost.

A 12 year old Glennfiddich means the youngest in the bottle is 12 years old, but most likely contains 15, 20, 21 and 25+ in it as well. These are blended with the younger base to create a blend that is consistent year by year. Once this is blended to taste it is watered down to generally 40-45% alcohol. 40% is the minimum allowed. Single Malt only means its from the same distillery.

So why is there a move away from age statement scotch... There are a few reasons.

Scotch by definition has to be a minimum of 3 years in a barrel, as Scotch has exploded over the past 10 years, everyone was caught flat footed without enough inventory to fill the demand. So stocks that had been earmarked for 12-15-20+ was used to create new expressions or used earlier then planned, which then creates a lack of older age statement Scotch down the line.

So they needed to find a way to sell younger Scotch and fight the impression (they created) that older stuff is better and more expensive.... Hence why you are seeing a movement away from age statements, and getting expressions that go by name, or even year statements (which have dubious legal definition)

So they also had another problem... They needed to more rapidly age Scotch to make it more mellow.... Enter the US Bourbon barrels.... By definition Bourbon must use a new barrel... as bourbon must be aged. Most bourbon is under 5 years and done is smaller barrels then what Scotland had been using. Enter a glut of bourbon barrels onto the market cheap, as compared to the traditional wine barrels used for scotch. These smaller brand new barrels could more quickly mellow a distillate and not cause a large loss to angel share as they could be used for less time. Which means faster production, cheaper as it is watered down more, and still get a full flavor. Addtionally they are using what is called finishing which is a short period in different barrel types, from port, sherry, sauternes, even rum. These finishes add more flavor and depth to the younger less complex expressions they are forced to put out by the higher demand.

That being said... there is alot of amazing stuff being put out without an age statement. Ardbeg, Bruichladdich, Kilchoman, Auchentoshian, and others are all putting out amazing drams without age statements. There is generally a consistency in price to quality out there, if you throw McCallan, the Glenfiddichs, Dalmore big market guys out the door. After sampling 100's of Scotch Expressions I can generally guess the pricepoint within a 5-10 dollars. Sure there are Gems at $60 and losers at $120 but there is a pretty good consistency at a price point the importers know what they have and what is expected at a price.

As for Nikka and the other Japanese brands... Its funny Scotch nerds are super anal about people calling anything Scotch that was not made in Scotland... But Almost all I know have made the mistake calling the Japanese whisky Scotch, as the flavor profile and production methods are a clone of Scottish production. For the most part the Japanese whisky is softer mellower smoother scotch. Also side note the best "Scotch" is actually Indian... Its called Amrut Fusion and it is the most perfectly balanced sub $100 scotch out there, it is the UR-Scotch, the only problem is that while made from Scottish grain, it is produced in India...
Edited:
 
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@Foo2rama damn, how you know about this stuff in such detail bro. Thanks for the explenation. 👍
 
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@Foo2rama damn, how you know about this stuff in such detail bro. Thanks for the explenation. 👍
Short story I’m writing a book. Long story... I’ve been very lucky to be involved with a store that sells more scotch then anyone else outside a chain. Through them I spent 2 Sunday nights a month for years sampling 5-12 expression from distilleries and learning from master distillers and The head NA importers, or literally the guy that wrote THE book on the type of booze. My tasting notes are near 1000 expressions of almost every booze type. I’ll admit I’m weak on Rhum Agricole and a few others more rare subsets. But I started as a wine guy left it due to snobbery, became a beer taster and left due to ibu (hops) chasing and boredom. So I had an experienced pallet and luckily a memory for flavor profiles and mouth feel. Plus I’ve got a memory for facts... names and numbers not so much.


Meeting the Master Jim McEwan with 52 years of experience starting as a cooper finishing as the Master Distiller of Bruichladdich. I got him to sign my Dark Arts 2 generally considered his best. Wonderful man the few times I met him, even extended an offer to stay on Islay with him to a friend and I.
 
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@Foo2rama that’s fantastic to have you posting in this thread. I have to admit, with your experience, I’m sure you’ve seen some absolute atrocities with some of my mixing habits haha. Please don’t judge ha.
 
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became a beer taster and left due to ibu (hops) chasing

I've noticed I've been drinking a lot less beer and a lot more Scotch since moving to California. Bar after bar, brewery after brewery, it gets tiring when every last beer from a "porter" to an "amber ale" to a "Belgian abbey tripel" is just an IPA with a different color palette.

At least it's easy to find Fat Tire and La Fin du Monde at most grocery stores here
 
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I've noticed I've been drinking a lot less beer and a lot more Scotch since moving to California. Bar after bar, brewery after brewery, it gets tiring when every last beer from a "porter" to an "amber ale" to a "Belgian abbey tripel" is just an IPA with a different color palette.

At least it's easy to find Fat Tire and La Fin du Monde at most grocery stores here

I've tired of beer pretty much entirely, maybe a Dutchess de Bourgogne once or twice a year.
Started moving into grower-producer champagnes lately if I want something cold and bubbly.
 
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I was going to type what @Foo2rama posted but he beat me too it by 5 minutes. And also knowledge and writing skills. Lol.
 
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I've tired of beer pretty much entirely, maybe a Dutchess de Bourgogne once or twice a year.
Started moving into grower-producer champagnes lately if I want something cold and bubbly.
Fun stuff! Crazy histories if you want to dig deep into it. Tastes are amazing!
 
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Fun stuff! Crazy histories if you want to dig deep into it. Tastes are amazing!
And reasonable!
 
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I've tired of beer pretty much entirely, maybe a Dutchess de Bourgogne once or twice a year.
Started moving into grower-producer champagnes lately if I want something cold and bubbly.

I miss the more interesting stuff being done back east... it's a shame Brooklyn Brewery isn't big enough to distribute very far outside the Northeast yet otherwise I'd still be buying the Quarterly Experiment series religiously. Here on the west coast it's all trendy IPAs and sours
 
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Here on the west coast it's all trendy IPAs and sours

I live in Seattle, sounds like you do too.
 
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I live in Seattle, sounds like you do too.

Oakland. Same shitty beers, no good coffee though
 
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Oakland. Same shitty beers, no good coffee though

I live in Seattle, sounds like you do too.

The Mariners and A's are having good seasons, so you have that going for you
 
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I just picked this one up, I saw an Ichiro branded that looked interesting but I hadn’t read any reviews.

Here’s to my first sip..

 
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I just picked this one up, I saw an Ichiro branded that looked interesting but I hadn’t read any reviews.

Here’s to my first sip..

Have yet to try this. How do you like it?
 
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Have yet to try this. How do you like it?

I expected it to be a sweet, and it is, but in my opinion it’s a harsher than the “from the barrel” offering. It has a bit more burn and a more pronounced peppery finish. From all reviews, I expected the opposite. Still has a creaminess to it like the other Nikki.

I’ll try it again in a couple days, it’s good, but I’m not sure it’s a re-buy for me. May change my mind as I get deeper into the bottle. I give Nikki whiskey from the barrel and Redbreast Lustau a 10/10, I would give this one an 8/10. I’m certainly no expert though.