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Wonder why watch dealers have a bad reputation ...

VetPsychWars
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Rochete Rochete
Last time I checked a true reputation is earned/developed on the basis of past deeds, not on gossips/especulations.

If only that were true.

Tom
 
larryganz
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oinkitt oinkitt
Where??

Sorry, my post above yours was like what's the big deal, but I had edited my post immediately to basically also say that it was 'silly to mention the box and papers with serial matching the case if those weren't on the table', but my edit is completely gone and I didn't know it was gone. Lost in the interwebs, didn't hit save, something.

But I did get the first part right.
 
edgware14
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Did anyone think to just ask the seller?

You'd pretty much know straight away if his reason for selling parts separate was dodgy or not, surely?
 
wsfarrell
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So he splits an alleged one-owner, complete watch with papers into two lots so as to increase his profit. He's allowed to do that, and I'm allowed to find it repugnant.
 
felsby
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wsfarrell wsfarrell
So he splits an alleged one-owner, complete watch with papers into two lots so as to increase his profit. He's allowed to do that, and I'm allowed to find it repugnant.
I also heard that pre-speedy cal. 321 watches are scrapped and sold as speedy spares. The market dictates.
 
Kek25
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I'm very surprised that the manufacturers of these high end watches didn't include the serial numbers on both the non-wear movement parts and the cases.

With the American pocket watches I have the serial number is included on the back side of most parts and you can often tell if the watch has been re-cased by the extra screw marks.
Edited:
 
Archer
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felsby felsby
I also heard that pre-speedy cal. 321 watches are scrapped and sold as speedy spares. The market dictates.

And it looks like some feed that market with a profit over all mentality.
 
Dan S
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edgware14 edgware14
In fact, you can see he sold the other parts here:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1977-Vi...el-Case-Caseback-ONLY-w-PAPERS-/223624603002?

Surely he can sell the watch as he wants, if he thinks he will get more money this way then who are we to judge? 😕

Interesting choice. I had imagined that it might have been a franken when he purchased it, but that 5.1M serial number goes with the pre-Comex dial. The watch was totally legit as far as I can tell, although with service hands.

I'm a bit skeptical that someone actually purchased that overpolished case and papers for over $11k USD. Maybe it's just money laundering.
 
mozartman
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wsfarrell wsfarrell
So he splits an alleged one-owner, complete watch with papers into two lots so as to increase his profit. He's allowed to do that, and I'm allowed to find it repugnant.
If it makes you feel better, these shenanigans are not limited to watches. Time was when a violin dealer would take a Stradivari or other famous old Italian name violin, cut it into pieces and use those pieces to assemble several violins, each of which they would sell as a Strad. (After all, a violin, like a watch, gets repaired over the years and original parts get replaced. You aren't going to find an "all original" 18th century violin no matter what.)
Of course, buyers nowadays are more than savvy about which part is original and which isn't. I'm sure watch collectors will be too soon enough, judging from the prices of these things nowadays, so long as there is any way to tell a replacement fro the original.
 
Edward53
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edgware14 edgware14
Surely he can sell the watch as he wants, if he thinks he will get more money this way then who are we to judge? 😕

Allow me to do that for you. This is the sort of person who will split a family medal group for more money. Split up a set of Chippendale chairs that have always been together for more money. Break up (as Peter de Unsavary tried but was thankfully thwarted) the sole surviving English Civil War armoury for more money. Split up a Giotto triptych for more money, in fact destroy the integrity of anything with intrinsic merit for a little more in their pocket. Are you ok with that? I'm not. It's all the same principle and we can't stop it, but we can express our disgust. There are words for that sort of person, "shark", "profiteer" and "vandal" being some of the more polite ones.
 
Kek25
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Very interesting topic. One must ask: “How do we really know if what we are buying is truly all original?”

I think the best we can hope for is that the piece is period correct. Unless one is the original owner of a piece it can never be claimed by its possessor, to a 100% degree of certainty, that it is all original. Will a reasonable degree of certainty suffice?
 
southtexas
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Kek25 Kek25
Very interesting topic. One must ask: “How do we really know if what we are buying is truly all original?”

I think the best we can hope for is that the piece is period correct. Unless one is the original owner of a piece it can never be claimed by its possessor, to a 100% degree of certainty, that it is all original. Will a reasonable degree of certainty suffice?

Unless you are the original owner and have serviced it yourself, you cannot know...it is simply impossible.
 
sdre
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southtexas southtexas
Unless you are the original owner and have serviced it yourself, you cannot know...it is simply impossible.
Which is why I have moved on to lesser brands like Citizen, Certinas, GP where it doesn't make much economical sense to stripe things down and sell as parts.

At least these watches have a higher percentage of being completely original and genuine.
IMG_20191002_141222_991.jpg IMG_20190914_193028_464.jpg IMG_20190917_085916_071.jpg IMG_20190831_112557_189.jpg
 
edgware14
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Edward53 Edward53
Allow me to do that for you. This is the sort of person who will split a family medal group for more money. Split up a set of Chippendale chairs that have always been together for more money. Break up (as Peter de Unsavary tried but was thankfully thwarted) the sole surviving English Civil War armoury for more money. Split up a Giotto triptych for more money, in fact destroy the integrity of anything with intrinsic merit for a little more in their pocket. Are you ok with that? I'm not. It's all the same principle and we can't stop it, but we can express our disgust. There are words for that sort of person, "shark", "profiteer" and "vandal" being some of the more polite ones.

Oh, I didn't say I don't understand the general feeling towards such behaviour. It isn't something I would do personally, but again, we don't know the story.

Looking at his watches for sale currently and under completed listings, I don't see one instance of him doing this before. Perhaps he over paid for the watch and realised the only way he's not going to take a $5K hit on it is by separating it. Who really knows?

'Shark' and 'profiteer' seem like reasonable words to describe such a person, you're right there, however comparing this watch to a Gitto triptych or the English Civil War armoury is a stretch 😉

wsfarrell wsfarrell
So he splits an alleged one-owner, complete watch with papers into two lots so as to increase his profit. He's allowed to do that, and I'm allowed to find it repugnant.

Perhaps I've just had a harder life than you, or we have different definitions of "repugnant" haha.. All good 👍
 
michael e
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Any evil bast@rd watch dealer running a business and trying to make money should be burned at the stake. How dare they? 😡
 
Archer
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michael e michael e
Any evil bast@rd watch dealer running a business and trying to make money should be burned at the stake. How dare they? 😡

Nothing wrong with running a business and making money, and this is a false argument really. It's how you make the money that counts.
 
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