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Wonder why watch dealers have a bad reputation ...
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerThat’s the beautiful thing about living in a free country. There shouldn’t be any “legitimate reason” to do anything and everything you want with your own personal property.
You’re dreaming up stuff.
He made a necklace from the midcase.
He made a candle holder from the caseback
He used the papers as a table setting.
And the box was used as a house for his pet hamster.
Here’s your alternate theory.
Hope everyone’s satisfied...
For someone who claims not to be involved, you are defending this very hard.
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Dan S
·This seller has a lot of spare parts, and they have to come from somewhere. I am not going to defend him, because I agree that the listing was written in a foolish way; he should just sell the parts and leave out the irrelevant bits about the history and the box and papers. There's obviously no point in including the papers in the sale of the movement and dial (which can't be connected to the papers), but it would have been better just to leave that can of worms closed.
It's fun to talk and speculate, but we honestly don't know the story here. And it's obviously unfair to make broad attacks on "watch dealers". Given the title of the thread, I can see why dealers might be a bit defensive.
If someone really wants an alternative speculation, here's one that's plausible. Perhaps when the seller purchased the watch, it was already a franken so he bought it as a piece that he always expected to part out. Possible, right? At least as good as any of the other guesses people are making.
If he uses the case to build a franken and then tries to sell it as original with box and papers, that would be very dishonest. But we have no proof that he will do that, and if that's his plan, it would be doubly foolish to mention those items in this listing. More likely that he just wants the case for himself, or that he will sell it separately (or already has).
It's fun to talk and speculate, but we honestly don't know the story here. And it's obviously unfair to make broad attacks on "watch dealers". Given the title of the thread, I can see why dealers might be a bit defensive.
If someone really wants an alternative speculation, here's one that's plausible. Perhaps when the seller purchased the watch, it was already a franken so he bought it as a piece that he always expected to part out. Possible, right? At least as good as any of the other guesses people are making.
If he uses the case to build a franken and then tries to sell it as original with box and papers, that would be very dishonest. But we have no proof that he will do that, and if that's his plan, it would be doubly foolish to mention those items in this listing. More likely that he just wants the case for himself, or that he will sell it separately (or already has).
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerYou’re free to reach your own conclusions, but shouldn’t make accusations unless you have facts. Which you don’t.
I made no accusations. I will also point out that you also have no facts related to this situation, but that hasn’t stopped you from drawing conclusions.
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ndgal
·I made no accusations. I will also point out that you also have no facts related to this situation, but that hasn’t stopped you from drawing conclusions.
If he has box and papers matching the serial number on the case, and he's keeping the boxes, papers and matching case, I can't really think of a legitimate reason for doing this.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerThat's right. I don't have facts.
Glad we agree.
So what you mean is that the only reason to do what this particular seller is choosing to do with his own personal property is illegitimate?
What I said is easily understood, except by you apparently. To explain...I, personally, can’t think of a legitimate reason for this, and I even asked for examples of what would be a legitimate reason, because I clearly could have missed something. But instead of giving some realistic example of why this “makes sense” instead what you have provided in response is attacks on anyone who dares to wonder what is going on here.
Was the OP fair in his characterization of the seller and dealers in general? Not in my view, but that doesn’t mean that this sale shouldn’t raise some questions. For you there appears to be no middle ground, but I think that’s where most people are on this one.
Your attacks on people in this thread are of the very sort that doesn’t help the reputation of dealers...
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Syrte
·Not sure what the seller intends to do with box papers and case, but if anything I’d be inclined to find him honest for disclosing that a watch was taken apart. If he were planning to market a franken covertly, he just blew his cover.
Anyhow, without going into the debate of this particular seller or this particular watch, I agree the title and inference are incredibly unfair for those good and honest dealers we know exist.
How do we encourage them to resist the tides of greed if we don’t even credit them for their efforts?
Also.... reputation isn’t everything. We know there are well known dealers whose good reputation is not deserved. And there are less famous ones who are trustworthy.
Anyhow, without going into the debate of this particular seller or this particular watch, I agree the title and inference are incredibly unfair for those good and honest dealers we know exist.
How do we encourage them to resist the tides of greed if we don’t even credit them for their efforts?
Also.... reputation isn’t everything. We know there are well known dealers whose good reputation is not deserved. And there are less famous ones who are trustworthy.
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ndgal
·I, personally, can’t think of a legitimate reason for this, and I even asked for examples of what would be a legitimate reason
Here, you asked for an alternate reason or theory and I provided one to you earlier:
He made a necklace from the midcase.
He made a candle holder from the caseback
He used the papers as a table setting.
And the box was used as a house for his pet hamster.
But instead of giving some realistic example of why this “makes sense”
Your attacks on people in this thread are of the very sort that doesn’t help the reputation of dealers...
Bottom line is, none of us really know what this seller's reason for selling this particular watch part might be.
We don't know if he (or maybe it is a She?) even has the rest of the parts or the box and papers as they claim.
Maybe they don't even have them but felt that if they mentioned it in their eBay item description it would somehow give legitimacy to the authenticity of the parts they are offering for sale? Who knows?
For one to take that eBay listing, project their own thoughts/imaginations/conclusions on the matter and start a thread on a watch forum calling watch dealers' reputation (in general) "Bad" is just wrong and unfair.
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S.H.
·You are free to think what you want, but labeling someone (or a group of people) with “Bad” reputation based on an imaginary scenario that you have conjured up in your head is just wrong IMO.
I am actually very much OK with the post above. However, with some other posts you are just alienating people and digging your own hole doing yourself a disservice in the process. As @Archer said, if he has box and papers matching the serial number on the case, and if he's keeping the boxes, papers and matching case, it raises red flags by the dozens. There is enough iffy things in the vintage watch world as it is, no need to overdo it. We can all agree in good faith that the listing is strange, and that not all pro dealers are bandits (a bit like watch collectors in fact), and spare this forum a weekend slugfest. They seem to multiply these days... everybody is trigger happy, why?
[edited for clarity]
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ndgal
·if he has box and papers
and if
Non of us really knows. But "Wonder why watch dealers have a bad reputation ..."
However, with some other posts you are just alienating people and digging your own hole doing yourself a disservice in the process.
I am digging myself a hole by pointing out what is wrong with this entire post since inception? 😵💫🤦
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Dan S
·Turning this a bit sideways, I don't actually think that this listing, as sketchy as it looks, represents the typical reason that a professional dealer might develop a truly bad reputation. I imagine that dealers take a lot of risks when they buy watches, and probably end up with incorrect watches occasionally, and choose to part them out. They are probably wise to be discreet about it, but as collectors we shouldn't be hypocritical about this, since we are the ones buying the parts.
IMO, professional dealers who develop a bad reputation are the ones who get caught providing false or incorrect information, engaging in sketchy business practices, or both. (A few of them may develop bad reputations simply because they're jerks.) High-end watch dealers are expected to be experts, and to protect their customers (who are not always experts) from being defrauded. For this (and for hunting up the watches to begin with), they earn their profit. They are not expected to be perfect, but when they make a mistake, they are expected to make things right. If a dealer is exposed for not having real expertise, for deliberately providing false information, or for ripping off a customer, then he may lose the trust of collectors. I'm sure we can all think of a few examples.
IMO, professional dealers who develop a bad reputation are the ones who get caught providing false or incorrect information, engaging in sketchy business practices, or both. (A few of them may develop bad reputations simply because they're jerks.) High-end watch dealers are expected to be experts, and to protect their customers (who are not always experts) from being defrauded. For this (and for hunting up the watches to begin with), they earn their profit. They are not expected to be perfect, but when they make a mistake, they are expected to make things right. If a dealer is exposed for not having real expertise, for deliberately providing false information, or for ripping off a customer, then he may lose the trust of collectors. I'm sure we can all think of a few examples.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerWhy is this reason not satisfactory? Why does one (your) reason make more sense than the other?
Well, if that's what dealers do with their watches, it's up to them, but it doesn't help inspire any confidence in them for me.
BTW, I have never said what this person did or didn't do, or what their intentions are. Like you are accusing others of doing, you are reading things into statements that aren't there.
I have not attacked anyone. In my opinion painting a group of people who share a certain line of work as having "Bad reputation" over an imaginary story one conjures up in their head is an unfair and baseless attack.
For someone who complains about people painting with a broad brush you appear to have a very big roller out and a large bucket of paint.
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omegastar
·Actually, I just noticed that watch dealers have a bad reputation, in general among forum members and I thought that this listing wasn’t going to help.
That’s all.
English is not my mother tongue and I may have not expressed myself correctly as I was trying to find a catchy title.
That’s all.
English is not my mother tongue and I may have not expressed myself correctly as I was trying to find a catchy title.
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Rochete
·Last time I checked a true reputation is earned/developed on the basis of past deeds, not on gossips/especulations.