Wonder why watch dealers have a bad reputation ...

M'Bob · Oct 10, 2019

michael e
Any evil bast@rd watch dealer running a business and trying to make money should be burned at the stake. How dare they? 😡

Archer
Nothing wrong with running a business and making money, and this is a false argument really. It's how you make the money that counts.

I read tongue-and-cheek into the top statement. Was I wrong?

M'Bob · Oct 10, 2019

This thread has really gotten unnecessarily combative and picayune.

Yes, the OP's title was a bit provocative given the circumstances but we've all done that and it's not a big deal.

On the other hand, @ndgal does deal watches and parts in an honest way so by the same token he shouldn't be assailed for taking issue with the content and reasoning of the OP's posts.

This whole thing spun out into a mastabatory semantics-fest without the usual tangents to lighten the mood.

Signed,

Your pal Rodney King

michael e · Oct 10, 2019

M'Bob
I read tongue-and-cheek into the top statement. Was I wrong?

Yes it was.
I am a watch collector turned dealer and over many years I have known bad watch dealers, bad collectors and bad covert dealers.( non tax payers)
It is all of the above and in fact all people in what ever profession who can be good/honest, bad/dishonest if they choose.
Many watch dealers make profit from splitting watches, it is common place, not done to be underhand but to make a profit. I can see why collectors don’t like it but when running any business the key is hopefully honesty and making a living.
I cannot see what the guy has done wrong in the Op, alhough a bit odd I must admit with that one.
Sometimes splitting a watch needs to be considered as well as associated fees and taxes to make a profit.
Cheers, Michael

PS
I would hate it if this place turned into many of the forums I used to visit, this place has always been the best due to the gentlemanly watch discussions people have.

Archer · Oct 10, 2019

michael e
Yes it was.
I am a watch collector turned dealer and over many years I have known bad watch dealers, bad collectors and bad covert dealers.( non tax payers)
It is all of the above and in fact all people in what ever profession who can be good/honest, bad/dishonest if they choose.
Many watch dealers make profit from splitting watches, it is common place, not done to be underhand but to make a profit. I can see why collectors don’t like it but when running any business the key is hopefully honesty and making a living.
I cannot see what the guy has done wrong in the Op, alhough a bit odd I must admit with that one.
Sometimes splitting a watch needs to be considered as well as associated fees and taxes to make a profit.
Cheers, Michael

PS
I would hate it if this place turned into many of the forums I used to visit, this place has always been the best due to the gentlemanly watch discussions people have.

I don't think anyone is saying that dealers are "not allowed" to split watches up to make a profit. But again, others are free to not like the practice, and avoid dealers who do it. We can all agree to disagree on the topic of splitting watches up, without it getting personal.

gostang9 · Oct 10, 2019

This thread is very interesting to me. I have no horse in the race, but find it interesting. As best I can understand:
- market places higher value on individual parts then a fully original watch with a "story"
- collectors on OF "value" a fully original watch more than individual parts

I don't quite understand how individual parts are valued more than a full watch... is it something like below?

- Seller A: complete original watch worth $20k, with a watch case ($10k), movement ($5k) and dial+hands ($5k)

- Seller B: has damaged case, but good movement and dial, can only sell as is for $8k
- if Seller B buys the case separately from seller A for $11k, put their movement and dial in it, they can sell for $20k?

- Seller C: has good case but damaged movement and dial, can only sell for $8k
- if Seller C buys the movement and dial from Seller A for $11k, they can put with their case and sell for $20k?

- Seller A: makes $22k separating case and movement/dial for a gain of $2k over original $20k?
- Seller B and C: both take $8k + $11k and sell for $20 for a gain of $1k each?

- Market with demand > supply gets 2 valuable watches instead of 1

felsby · Oct 10, 2019

I think collectors mourn the loss of a watch that can never be brought back when the parts are sold all over the world. But we are looking at the watch with collector's glasses. For some dealers, it is merely a source of profit, and there is nothing wrong with that. The whole thing boils down to conflicting interests. But I just couldn't do it.

Dan S · Oct 10, 2019

michael e
I cannot see what the guy has done wrong in the Op, alhough a bit odd I must admit with that one.

TBH, that's where I'm currently at in this thread. Still scratching my head trying to figure out how the seller saw value in splitting up the watch. This specific watch and these specific parts ... I'm not being hypothetical here, because I obviously understand why it might be profitable in some cases. It doesn't add up to me, and I simply don't believe that anyone actually bought the case, case-back and papers for a 1977 ref 5513 for $11k on eBay.

At first I speculated that the watch was originally a franken, or that he wanted to keep some of the parts for his own project, but apparently neither of those guesses were true.

michael e · Oct 10, 2019

gostang9
This thread is very interesting to me. I have no horse in the race, but find it interesting. As best I can understand:
- market places higher value on individual parts then a fully original watch with a "story"
- collectors on OF "value" a fully original watch more than individual parts

I don't quite understand how individual parts are valued more than a full watch... is it something like below?

- Seller A: complete original watch worth $20k, with a watch case ($10k), movement ($5k) and dial+hands ($5k)

- Seller B: has damaged case, but good movement and dial, can only sell as is for $8k
- if Seller B buys the case separately from seller A for $11k, put their movement and dial in it, they can sell for $20k?

- Seller C: has good case but damaged movement and dial, can only sell for $8k
- if Seller C buys the movement and dial from Seller A for $11k, they can put with their case and sell for $20k?

- Seller A: makes $22k separating case and movement/dial for a gain of $2k over original $20k?
- Seller B and C: both take $8k + $11k and sell for $20 for a gain of $1k each?

- Market with demand > supply gets 2 valuable watches instead of 1

Speaking personally I will sell a watch and bracelet separately but will not buy a watch to strip down and sell for its parts.
I have many times took a 7077, 1039, 7912 from a rough, common, plain Omega to make a profit and I know many other both collectors and dealers who have done the same.
I have also sold many watches that would have made more money in parts but prefer not to do it, but I am not offended if others do it.
Cheers, Michael