WHO loves Certinas ?

Eve · Sep 13, 2023

i have a question to the Certina specialists, have you ever seen a GF bracelet with endlinks that have no designation at all?
As far as i have seen so far, there are "X", "DS" and "D" and "S" Endlinks.
I think the earliest endlinks where with designation "X".

I have a Patent Pending DS watch with a GF bracelet with the clasp stamped 3-59, so one of the earlier ones, that has no stamp on the endlinks at all. the bracelet and watch were full of gunk so i dont have any reason to doubt that they are legit and they started their life together. They fit absolutely prefectly to the watch case, i am 99% certain they are original. i just have never seen another one like this.
Unfortunatelly the only other DS endlinks i have for comparison are pretty worn. so not very good example to compare..
They also dont have the the notch for the springbar tool, compare to the later endlinks.

Nupero · Sep 14, 2023

Ladder bracelet experiments...

Nupero · Sep 22, 2023

State of the Collection 2023:

Eve · Sep 22, 2023

Nupero
State of the Collection 2023:

very nice!
it seems you are a big fan of the "manual wind - no date" combo 😉

Eve · Sep 23, 2023

A nice patent pending DS

Eve · Oct 16, 2023

Eve
i have a question to the Certina specialists, have you ever seen a GF bracelet with endlinks that have no designation at all?
As far as i have seen so far, there are "X", "DS" and "D" and "S" Endlinks.
I think the earliest endlinks where with designation "X".

I have a Patent Pending DS watch with a GF bracelet with the clasp stamped 3-59, so one of the earlier ones, that has no stamp on the endlinks at all. the bracelet and watch were full of gunk so i dont have any reason to doubt that they are legit and they started their life together. They fit absolutely prefectly to the watch case, i am 99% certain they are original. i just have never seen another one like this.
Unfortunatelly the only other DS endlinks i have for comparison are pretty worn. so not very good example to compare..
They also dont have the the notch for the springbar tool, compare to the later endlinks.

So to answer my own question. i managed to digg out another early GF bracelet with X endlinks stamped (1 quarter of 60).
So a very close contender to my "no name" endlink (3rd quarter of 59). And i must say they are virtually identical. Pretty cool actually to find the fourth type of GF endlinks without any stamp.

Eve · Oct 16, 2023

Was trying to figure out why the numerals and text on these early black dialed DS looked so dynamic in light. Did a few macro shots and to my surprise realised that they are not painted but etched into the dial paint.

So is this is something one would call gilt dial?

RhoFiera · Oct 16, 2023

Eve
So is this is something one would call gilt dial?

I associate gilt with gold tone applied. Even so, gilt or no gilt, that dial is magic 🥰

Beautiful in that case without a dive bezel. Am I the first to call dibs?? 😝

minutenrohr · Oct 16, 2023

I believe there are also silver "Gilt Dials". When you get right down to it, this designation is not well chosen. It is actually about the fact that not the writing (etc...) is printed on a silvered or gold-plated dial (which would be the usual case), but that practically a negative, i.e. everything that is not a writing/symbol, etc., is galvanically applied to the gold-plated or silver-plated dial. Result: no raised lettering (etc...) as with the usual dial printing, but a "sunken".

Hope that helps - HU

__ryan__ · Oct 16, 2023

Nice macro shot. As I understand, it's a gilt dial -- at least the numerals. In addition to the explanation above, I believe the text is printed with a clear lacquer, which prevents things from adhering during the subsequent deposition steps.

Waiting for mine to return from service:

RhoFiera · Oct 16, 2023

minutenrohr
I believe there are also silver "Gilt Dials". When you get right down to it, this designation is not well chosen. It is actually about the fact that not the writing (etc...) is printed on a silvered or gold-plated dial

__ryan__
As I understand, it's a gilt dial -- at least the numerals. In addition to the explanation above, I believe the text is printed with a clear lacquer, which prevents things from adhering during the subsequent deposition steps

You learn something new every day. Thank you for the insight!

minutenrohr · Oct 16, 2023

__ryan__
Nice macro shot. As I understand, it's a gilt dial -- at least the numerals. In addition to the explanation above, I believe the text is printed with a clear lacquer, which prevents things from adhering during the subsequent deposition steps.

Correct. I didn't want to write too much, but a cover for what remains as "gilt" at the end is of course to be applied before the galvanic process.

minutenrohr · Oct 16, 2023

You can see that there are two different types of dials. What surprises me is that one is printed completely clean (apparently everything using the "gilt" process). The second, on the other hand, has imperfections at the signature, at the "DS" and at the "T". Probably a combination of both printing methods?
I am unsure about the minute track (because of the photo...)

minutenrohr · Oct 16, 2023

Another dial (date version)

Eve · Oct 16, 2023

minutenrohr
You can see that there are two different types of dials. What surprises me is that one is printed completely clean (apparently everything using the "gilt" process). The second, on the other hand, has imperfections at the signature, at the "DS" and at the "T". Probably a combination of both printing methods?
I am unsure about the minute track (because of the photo...)

You are correct, everything on the early dials including the text and minute track is sunken.
The later dials seem to be a combination with printing. But i never held a later dial in hands to say for sure, just judgeing from other photos.

Eve · Oct 16, 2023

__ryan__
Nice macro shot. As I understand, it's a gilt dial -- at least the numerals. In addition to the explanation above, I believe the text is printed with a clear lacquer, which prevents things from adhering during the subsequent deposition steps.

Waiting for mine to return from service:

Thats one clean looking dial 👍

Eve · Oct 16, 2023

RhoFiera
I associate gilt with gold tone applied. Even so, gilt or no gilt, that dial is magic 🥰

Beautiful in that case without a dive bezel. Am I the first to call dibs?? 😝

Thanks 👍
I was looking for a no date version for a while, and there are debates in Cerina circles that these "no-date" version only existed in a case with a bezel (not sure there is enough proof though).
Since i like them without the bezel more, i just removed my bezel and put it safely in a box 😗problem solved 😁

__ryan__ · Oct 16, 2023

minutenrohr
You can see that there are two different types of dials. What surprises me is that one is printed completely clean (apparently everything using the "gilt" process). The second, on the other hand, has imperfections at the signature, at the "DS" and at the "T". Probably a combination of both printing methods?
I am unsure about the minute track (because of the photo...)

Yes, the "CERTINA automatic" and "DS T" on mine are printed with a sort of white paint. I don't have it in front of me to verify, but I believe the minute track is also printed using paint. It's interesting to see a dial that is fully (or mostly) gilt. @Eve: the "DS" and "T" on yours are also gilt?

Eve · Oct 16, 2023

__ryan__
Yes, the "CERTINA automatic" and "DS T" on mine are printed with a sort of white paint. I don't have it in front of me to verify, but I believe the minute track is also printed using paint. It's interesting to see a dial that is fully (or mostly) gilt. @Eve: the "DS" and "T" on yours are also gilt?

The "DS" is etched and the letter "T" is white painted on top of the red cross:

__ryan__ · Oct 16, 2023

There are a number of variants. None of these are mine -- they're just examples that I found while researching these divers.

Here's a 5601-113 with lume dots on the hours, no lume on the applied indices, gilt numerals, and what appears to be white paint for everything else. I was a bit suspicious of the triangle placement on the bezel, but it looks to be similar to the one posted above by @minutenrohr.

Another 5601-113, which looks to be fully gilt with golden text and numerals. I'm not sure if the base dial is actually golden, or if it's silver that has aged. With lume on the applied indices and the "T" painted over the red cross, similar to the example of @Eve. This one also has a count-up bezel, as opposed to the count-down bezels of the others.

certina-ds-red-cross-1964-vintage-swiss-automatic-watch-cal-25-65-ref-5601-113-tropical-dial-.jpg

Another reference is the 5801-113, which has wider hands, rectangular lume plots on the hours, and applied indices with lume. These have gilt numerals with painted text and are lacking a "T" beneath the "DS".

Finally, a no-date example without the dive bezel. I'm not sure if it's original.