What would you offer for a poor condition 60s De Ville

mangozac · Apr 5, 2021

While I continue the search for the perfect example Seamaster to pick up I was wondering if it might be worth grabbing something cheap to whet my appetite and play around with. Even to crack open myself and inspect the movement (I'm an engineer used to working with tiny devices). I've come across this watch locally. It's a 60 De Ville with a gold plated case - looks to be a 166.020 or similar? Nice Hippocampus caseback (which I prefer).

Let's be honest: it's in a rough condition. Big issues I can see are:
1. The inner bezel ring (I'm not sure what the correct term for this is) looks to be either incorrect and/or damaged. It must surely be rattling around inside the watch?
2. There is a scratch (confirmed by the seller to be on the dial) at 8 o'clock.
3. The sides of the case have some significant pry marks from someone trying to open the watch.
4. The seller has no idea what calibre and (probably rightfully so) doesn't want to open it for fear of doing more damage.
5. Corrosion on the hands, but from what I've seen this is pretty common for this vintage.

I expect it's a 56X calibre inside. I don't believe it's a redial - from the photos the text looks good. Maybe slightly heavy script but not enough that it's an obvious redial to me.

On the plus side it is on what looks to be (from photos at least) a genuine Omega leather band. The case looks fairly crisp still so I don't think it's been over-polished.

So the question is what (if anything) it would be worth paying for a piece in this condition for my described purposes? The seller is asking USD550 but we all know he's dreaming at that price 😉

Thanks!

Syrte · Apr 5, 2021

This watch is worth the sum of its parts- impossible to assess considering the high risk that the movement may be damaged too.

So the answer is no, it’s not a good idea to buy a watch like this, for any reason, it’s a complete waste.

If you want to play with movements you should buy broken no name watches for 20 euros/ dollars whatever.

but hey it’s your money, so if you’re burning to spend a lot of it quick and make it unavailable for the watch you really want, just knock yourself out.

mangozac · Apr 5, 2021

Thanks, that's fair enough regarding the value.

It's not so much that I want to "play with movements" but rather to familiarise myself with these particular Omega movements out of personal interest and maybe even gain basic servicing skills.

I'm not exactly talking about burning money here - the idea was to purchase something like this for a proportionate price. Either way, it's not the kind of money that would make any difference to my ability to afford the right watch when it comes along.

S.H. · Apr 5, 2021

mangozac
It's not so much that I want to "play with movements" but rather to familiarise myself with these particular Omega movements out of personal interest and maybe even gain basic servicing skills.

1) maybe forget monobloc cases for now if you don't know what you are doing, and if you don't know how to source a crystal for it.
2) get yourself schooled before spending money. Learning by yourself starting with a small omega movement is... ambitious.

If you are really itching, learn how to completely dismantle a 10$ quartz watch, and also how to put it back together. Once you can do that you may stand a better chance of not f*cking everything up on your 1st try...

Don't forget servicing watches is a real job, usually not a hobby. Be prepared to spend time (and money) before doing something good on such a watch.

mangozac · Apr 5, 2021

I find these responses a bit patronising - probably my own fault as I haven't explained the extent of my skill set. Still, most other forums I've visited are much more enthusiastic about hobbyist skills.

Syrte · Apr 5, 2021

S.H.
servicing watches is a real job, usually not a hobby. Be prepared to spend time (and money) before doing something good on such a watch.

^^^ this!
The only hobbyists I know who have learned to service their own watches over time have been collectors for several decades.
So whatever you will do to « familiarize yourself », you just need to be a bit realistic. Indeed we’re not familiar with your skill set but many people here are engineers- yet it doesn’t mean they can all train themselves in a few months of tinkering To acquire abilities that require years of professional training.

That being said, if you want to dismount movements and learn, all swiss movements have similar types of architecture, so there’s really no point paying a premium for a brand name.

Dan S · Apr 5, 2021

I doubt that the seller will come down to a point that makes this a worthwhile purchase, that scratch on the dial is not going away. For your purposes, I'd suggest picking up a watch (or maybe a job lot) at a thrift store. One can often find decent but obscure Swiss watches in plated cases very inexpensively.

S.H. · Apr 5, 2021

mangozac
I find these responses a bit patronising - probably my own fault as I haven't explained the extent of my skill set. Still, most other forums I've visited are much more enthusiastic about hobbyist skills.

Believe me, I know a thing or two about being an engineer, and repairing vintage watches. I'm not patronizing you, I'm just giving you pointers to avoid desillusions and losing time, money and motivation.

Learn the basics first. How would you react to somebody wanting to tackle some engineering project, without knowing much about applied maths, mechanics, IT, etc? You would probably tell them to begin with, well, the beginning. Some people can always start from the middle and progress very quickly from here, but it is quite uncommon.

As the others said, beginning with an Omega that will cost you a few hundreds doesn't look like a good idea. But is is your money, and your time.

SkunkPrince · Apr 5, 2021

You might have a look through here.

TM 9-1575 Ordnance Maintenance: Wrist Watches, Pocket ...https://archive.org › details › TM9-1575

SkunkPrince · Apr 5, 2021

Also, in my opinion... start with a Westclox Baby Ben Style 4, 5, or 6.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-WE...K-61V-USA-ANTIQUE-WHITE-CREAM-2A/373522739725

mangozac · Apr 5, 2021

Syrte
^^^ this!
That being said, if you want to dismount movements and learn, all swiss movements have similar types of architecture, so there’s really no point paying a premium for a brand name.

Thanks, that's good to know.

Dan S
I doubt that the seller will come down to a point that makes this a worthwhile purchase, that scratch on the dial is not going away.

That's exactly what I've been trying to ascertain. Thanks!

SkunkPrince
You might have a look through here.

TM 9-1575 Ordnance Maintenance: Wrist Watches, Pocket ...https://archive.org › details › TM9-1575

Thanks, that's quite a cool resource!

mangozac · Apr 5, 2021

S.H.
Learn the basics first. How would you react to somebody wanting to tackle some engineering project, without knowing much about applied maths, mechanics, IT, etc? You would probably tell them to begin with, well, the beginning. Some people can always start from the middle and progress very quickly from here, but it is quite uncommon.

With all due respect to watchmakers, I don't think that's a valid comparison. Constructing a watch from scratch or performing extensive repairs may be more akin to your analogy, but simple disassembly, servicing and reassembly is not that difficult. The trick is identifying what tasks are outside of one's skill set and hand over to a professional where appropriate.

Just being an engineer certainly doesn't automatically give someone the skill set to be able to work on a watch movement. An engineering background can help with some of the physics concepts but some engineering fields will also provide a great deal of practical knowledge relevant to watch servicing from a hobbyist approach. This is where I'm coming from.

The watch in question here was simply a matter of opportunity if there was a price that would make it a worthwhile gamble. It has become clear that it's not. The advice to start with other, non-valuable Swiss movements is good.

SkunkPrince · Apr 5, 2021

mangozac
The advice to start with other, non-valuable Swiss movements is good.

The advice to start with the alarm clock is better.

mangozac · Apr 5, 2021

SkunkPrince
The advice to start with the alarm clock is better.

Sure, but where's the excitement in that? 😀

SkunkPrince · Apr 5, 2021

mangozac
Sure, but where's the excitement in that? 😀

Quite a bit, actually.

Archer · Apr 5, 2021

mangozac
With all due respect to watchmakers, I don't think that's a valid comparison. Constructing a watch from scratch or performing extensive repairs may be more akin to your analogy, but simple disassembly, servicing and reassembly is not that difficult. The trick is identifying what tasks are outside of one's skill set and hand over to a professional where appropriate.

Just being an engineer certainly doesn't automatically give someone the skill set to be able to work on a watch movement. An engineering background can help with some of the physics concepts but some engineering fields will also provide a great deal of practical knowledge relevant to watch servicing from a hobbyist approach. This is where I'm coming from.

The watch in question here was simply a matter of opportunity if there was a price that would make it a worthwhile gamble. It has become clear that it's not. The advice to start with other, non-valuable Swiss movements is good.

I'm and engineer, and watchmaker, so I think I can speak to what sort of things are transferrable between the two. Theory yes, as none of it is terribly complicated from a servicing point of view. Practical knowledge of proper techniques? Not so much.

Can I ask what servicing you have done previously? If the answer is none, then this is not the movement to start with. A vintage watch like this one is really never a case of disassemble, clean, reassemble. There will be worn parts, and parts that I'm guessing you won't have the capability to repair or replace.

I'm not sure if you have a watchmaker in mind that you plan to "hand over" the tasks you can't perform yourself to, but most watchmakers aren't just going to do one or two small things on a movement. That's not how you earn a living as a watchmaker...so if this is your plan I would get agreement from someone before you start.

So if you are new to watchmaking, I would recommend getting an ETA 6497 or even an Asian clone of this movement to start with. It's a simple movement with large parts, that will allow you to develop the needed dexterity when working with watch parts. There's a reason watch schools use this movement.

Next I recommend you read the series of posts I've made on the basics aspects of servicing, starting with this one:

Basic watchmaking tips - cleaning | Omega Forums

There are a whole series of these threads (8 so far I think) with "Basic watchmaking tips" in the title, so you can search the forum to find the rest and read them all before you start, and they will give you an idea of the basics.

If you have questions, just ask - I'm willing to help people who are willing to listen.

Cheers, Al

mangozac · Apr 6, 2021

Thanks Archer for the really well thought out and helpful response!

I have no prior watch servicing experience. Purely design and practical experience relating to the manufacture of miniature mechatronic devices.

My thoughts on self servicing were simply inspection and lubrication and maybe some cleaning and replacement of basic parts (like crystals, crowns, etc.) where possible (although I have learned that obtaining replacement parts from Omega is impossible for the enthusiast). Certainly I would not be so rude as to hand over to a watchmaker and ask them to do specific small tasks - the identification of ones' limits has to occur before "having a go" on a piece. It's like the mechanic who will charge double to fix a mistake an owner has made as DIY 😉

I strongly appreciate your recommendations. The wisdom you impart in your cleaning tips post is extremely generous and I'll be sure to search out the rest of the series.

Scooterino36 · Apr 6, 2021

mangozac
I find these responses a bit patronising - probably my own fault as I haven't explained the extent of my skill set. Still, most other forums I've visited are much more enthusiastic about hobbyist skills.

I respect the hell out of hobbyists/tinkerers as I myself am not one. That being said, there is a perceived arrogance when someone intends to do as a hobby what many of us pay hundreds of dollars to have performed by a qualified watchmaker. So a hobbyist’s enthusiasm could easily be misinterpreted as a lack of respect for the craft. That’s just my honest outsider’s assessment when I see interactions in threads like these.

What would you offer for a poor condition 60s De Ville

mangozac

Syrte

mangozac

S.H.

mangozac

Syrte

Dan S

S.H.

SkunkPrince

SkunkPrince

mangozac

mangozac

SkunkPrince

mangozac

SkunkPrince

Archer

mangozac

Scooterino36

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