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What do you think: Tissot Lemania CH27 chronograph in 18kt - gilt dial

MarcelGuinchard
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Hi guys,
I am on the hunt for a vintage 18k chronographwith pump pushers. Think gold Omega 145.005 or Movado M95... but cheaper 😀
What do you think about this Tissot with gild dial, that is offered for 7.5k€ by a French dealer:
https://sabiwatches.com/product/1940s-tissot-chronograph-with-gilt-dial-in-18kt-yellow-gold
Below are movement pictures not in the original listing.
Many thanks!
M
P1160405.jpg
L8I46293007_540x.jpg
P1160422.jpg
 
calalum
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Seems remarkably clean for a watch of that vintage. I would do a lot more research before putting down that kind of coin. Good luck.
 
MarcelGuinchard
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calalum calalum
Seems remarkably clean for a watch of that vintage. I would do a lot more research before putting down that kind of coin. Good luck.
Thanks @calalum !
What I will research:
- the pushers seem to be gold plated, given how they turned silver. Is that something original to the watch?
- is that normal that there is no model number?
- are there any other similar-dialed tissot out there?

Any other thing to look at?
thx
 
Mark020
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Not a Tissot expert but that dials looks too crude for me. My vote would be redial.
Edited:
 
Tony C.
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Overpriced, in my view, and I wouldn't be comfortable with the lack of movement images. If the dealer sent you the one that you posted, I would question why it is so small.

Also, the upper pusher appears to have been replaced. If you look at the large image of it, it appears to have been damaged, yet the smaller movement shot, and presumably the front shot appear to feature a newer one.

Finally, the upper case has seen some polishing, and the lugs are unlikely to present as they did when new. Even assuming an original dial, I wouldn't have interest at anything close to the asking price.
 
Vitezi
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MarcelGuinchard MarcelGuinchard
What do you think about this Tissot with gild dial, that is offered for 7.5k€ by a French dealer:
This same watch has bounced around between a couple of dealers. Here is it's previous listing:
https://pascalkarpwatchesexpertise....h27-gilt-dial-or-jaune-18kts-cal-c27-41h-1946

At a glance it's a good looking watch, and if you're not a collector, that will look lovely on the wrist. However, vintage watch collectors are keen to spot redialed watches, and this one has a few areas of concern.

Notice how the 8 overlaps the subdial edge:
upload_2023-1-23_10-26-20.png


Notice how the 4 does the same:
upload_2023-1-23_10-27-20.png


Notice how thick the paint has been applied in the minute ring:
upload_2023-1-23_10-30-8.png


Those are a few tells you can spot without knowing anything about vintage Tissot chronographs. Now, if you're also a vintage Tissot collector 😗 this is what a solid gold chronograph (with a nearby serial number) would look like...

upload_2023-1-23_10-40-19.png



...and you can see that the fonts are different, the numeral layout in the subdials is different, the scales are different, the printing is crisp and sharp.

For further comparison, here is mine from that era:
upload_2023-1-23_10-42-50.png
 
Bernhard J
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Vitezi Vitezi
Now, if you're also a vintage Tissot collector 😗 this is what a solid gold chronograph (with a nearby serial number) would look like...

upload_2023-1-23_10-40-19.png


...and you can see that the fonts are different, the numeral layout in the subdials is different, the scales are different, the printing is crisp and sharp.

And you do not find it strange, how the 10 and 2 o´clock indices overlap the subdials in this case, whereas the 4 and 8 o´clock indices do not overlap?
Just asking, as a matter of interest and for learning.

Cheers, Bernhard
 
Vitezi
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Bernhard J Bernhard J
And you do not find it strange, how the 10 and 2 o´clock indices overlap the subdials in this case, whereas the 4 and 8 o´clock indices do not overlap?
Indeed, they seemed to do so on that model with the long markers. Here's a different example:
upload_2023-1-23_12-35-38.png
 
Bernhard J
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And indeed so differently in one and the same dial? I (far from being an expert), would immediately have tipped "redone dial"

Omega.jpg
 
Mark020
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Exactly. Looks like I did that
 
MarcelGuinchard
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It’s been 8 years since I started reading and posting on this forum. Even after this time, I am still impressed by the quality of feedbacks that are shared here, as well as the effort by members to educate the group.
Thanks a lot @Vitezi @Bernhard J @Tony C. @Mark020

It now seems obvious that this dial has areas of concern (numbers overlapping on sundials, thick paint).

thanks all for the educational content. Will obviously pass this one.
Take care.
 
K
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MarcelGuinchard MarcelGuinchard
It’s been 8 years since I started reading and posting on this forum. Even after this time, I am still impressed by the quality of feedbacks that are shared here, as well as the effort by members to educate the group.
Thanks a lot @Vitezi @Bernhard J @Tony C. @Mark020

It now seems obvious that this dial has areas of concern (numbers overlapping on sundials, thick paint).

thanks all for the educational content. Will obviously pass this one.
Take care.

Old thread but wanted to chime in because I own the watch in question.

I'm confident it's not a redial.

For starters, this is a true gilt dial, so the numbers and other details are the brass dial plate showing through.

None of it has been painted on and so there is no 'thick paint'. There's a really nice shimmer to the dial because of the brass details and glossy finish. Also the black paint is not perfect and shows obvious signs of wear under magnification.

It is strange that the 4 and 8 overlap into the subdials, but the other examples posted here have anomalies too... Like the markers encroaching in the same way.

The case is pretty sharp. The pump pushers are both identical and plated. With some wear showing.
Edited:
 
K
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Going to respond again in defence of the watch, since a rather interesting 'companion piece' has come to light via Bulang and Sons. And let's face it, dial originality matters to collectors and enthusiasts alike.

Recently, Bulang and Sons have listed a gorgeous miniature (29mm) chronograph in an 18k gold case with -- what look to be -- plated pushers and a dial with striking similarities to my Tissot.

Both dials are gilt (negative relief) and have quite 'fat' printing; something other commenters have described as 'crude' earlier on in the thread. -- Zoom in on the minute track, for instance. In both watches, the pattern looks almost identical. Same goes for how the printing looks on the guilloche subdials.

With my Tissot, another printing quirk has been noted earlier on in the thread. Namely, in the printing of the numbers '2', '4', '8', all of which 'bleed' into their respective subdials.

Well... The same 'error' is present on the Bulang and Sons mini chronograph. Except, curiously, for the number '10' which seems to have been spared this fate for some reason, instead ending before overlapping into the neighbouring subdial.

And guess what... If you look back at the Tissot the same quirk is there too. I.e. the number '10' does not bleed into the subdials.

Not only do both watches have original dials; it seems likely that they were printed by the same manufacturer, whoever that may be.
Edited:
 
W-2676_2.jpg IMG_20240504_152528.jpg IMG-20240504-WA0115.jpg IMG-20240504-WA0114(1).jpg
SWmania
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K KnightNZ
Going to respond again in defence of the watch, since a rather interesting 'companion piece' has come to light via Bulang and Sons. And let's face it, dial originality matters to collectors and enthusiasts alike.

Recently, Bulang and Sons have listed a gorgeous miniature (29mm) chronograph in an 18k gold case with -- what look to be -- plated pushers and a dial with striking similarities to my Tissot.

Both dials are gilt (negative relief) and have quite 'fat' printing; something other commenters have described as 'crude' earlier on in the thread. -- Zoom in on the minute track, for instance. In both watches, the pattern looks almost identical. Same goes for how the printing looks on the guilloche subdials.

With my Tissot, another printing quirk has been noted earlier on in the thread. Namely, in the printing of the numbers '2', '4', '8', all of which 'bleed' into their respective subdials.

Well... The same 'error' is present on the Bulang and Sons mini chronograph. Except, curiously, for the number '10' which seems to have been spared this fate for some reason, instead ending before overlapping into the neighbouring subdial.

And guess what... If you look back at the Tissot the same quirk is there too. I.e. the number '10' does not bleed into the subdials.

Not only do both watches have original dials; it seems likely that they were printed by the same manufacturer, whoever that may be.

Very intriguing follow-up for sure!!

My first impression was also quite a nice dial, and especially if it were true gilt, it would be hard to argue against it being original...

And also good comparison with the 29mm baby chrono from B&S.

I would have to agree that both should be original as well.

I have not seen a redial with true gilt, as far as I am aware

Anyways, congrats and enjoy your tissot chronograph!!
 
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