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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerThere are still many parts inside that are made of plain old carbon steel...
What average rate should you be happy with on META calibers?
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VetPsychWars
·There are still many parts inside that are made of plain old carbon steel...
Do you have a sense of which parts in particular contribute most to rate change when magnetized? If one is the pallet, I can see that being a sensitive part.
Tom
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerDo you have a sense of which parts in particular contribute most to rate change when magnetized? If one is the pallet, I can see that being a sensitive part.
Tom
No, but pretty much all the train wheels pinions are made of carbon steel, plus the parts in the winding/setting mechanism, the cannon pinion, parts in the automatic winding, etc. There are very few parts that have been changed to the non-magnetic materials, but the pallet fork is one of them (at least it is for the 8900 and I would assume the same here).
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VetPsychWars
·Thanks, Al. The change from 0s to +3s is such a miniscule percentage it makes sense that it doesn't take much.
Tom
Tom
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timecube
·Omega sucks, move to the Rolex forums and leave us alone.
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Gruesome
·Al can probably enlighten us on this: shouldn't it be possible to get a modern watch regulated, just as people used to have done with their railroad watches?
What I mean is once it's established that the watch is properly adjusted, i.e. runs stable under variation in position, temperature (and maybe now also magnetic field), then it should be possible to get the average daily gain or loss regulated to the watch wearer's habits. If you are lucky and one of the positions already allows you to correct the average gain overnight, then this wouldn't be necessary, of course.
What I mean is once it's established that the watch is properly adjusted, i.e. runs stable under variation in position, temperature (and maybe now also magnetic field), then it should be possible to get the average daily gain or loss regulated to the watch wearer's habits. If you are lucky and one of the positions already allows you to correct the average gain overnight, then this wouldn't be necessary, of course.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerAl can probably enlighten us on this: shouldn't it be possible to get a modern watch regulated, just as people used to have done with their railroad watches?
What I mean is once it's established that the watch is properly adjusted, i.e. runs stable under variation in position, temperature (and maybe now also magnetic field), then it should be possible to get the average daily gain or loss regulated to the watch wearer's habits. If you are lucky and one of the positions already allows you to correct the average gain overnight, then this wouldn't be necessary, of course.
Yes, of course watches can be regulated. The issue here is not that it can't be regulated, but that the OP is not satisfied with the tolerances from Omega.
Depending on the specific METAS caliber, the tolerances for average daily rate are 0 to 5, 0 to 6, or 0 to 7 seconds per day. Omega also has a target rate that they aim for, and it's not a hard and fast rule, but sort of a guideline, and in most cases that target average rate is +3 seconds per day. This is because people are far more willing to accept a watch running 3 seconds fast per day, then even is second slow on their wrist, even though the 1 second slow is more accurate.
But you mention adjustment, and when people talk of these average rates, they often don't understand the numbers behind them. The Delta is the key, and in most cases at full wind these watches are allowed to have as much as 12 seconds of positional variation over 6 positions. Some MC calibers are allowed 14 seconds, and some even 16 seconds. This is before we take isochronism into account. If you regulate very close to zero on a timing machine, weighting each position equally, then you run the real risk of the watch running slow when worn - again why the target rate is +3.
I sometimes have these conversations with my customers when they ask me to regulate it as close to zero as possible, and when I explain that due to the variation this could mean a slow watch depending on their wearing habits, they usually opt to make the average a bit fast.
Regulating to the wearer is certainly possible, but it requires the owner to wear the watch, gather data, bring that to the watchmaker who makes an adjustment, and then the owner has to wear it and check it again. It often becomes an iterative process, and if the watch is already running within tolerances, Omega won't do this under warranty. Many watchmakers are too busy to be bothered tweaking watches like this for customers. Then if the customer changes their wearing habits, this is all for naught.
Cheers, Al
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Gruesome
·Thank you, Al. So do people still come to you and get their watch regulated (with all the caveats that you mentioned), or has this been largely forgotten and abandoned? I personally would think that if you have a watch that you really like, except that its average rate is off a bit much even after you tried all resting positions, it would be well worth the expense to get it regulated. I wouldn't expect Omega (or any other brand) to pay for this adaptation to the individual wearer, but I would want the warranty maintained.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerThank you, Al. So do people still come to you and get their watch regulated (with all the caveats that you mentioned), or has this been largely forgotten and abandoned?
No, I don;t really get asked to do this much, and since most of my customers are remote to me, it doesn't make sense as it would involved shipping the watches back and forth.
Can't speak for watchmakers who may operate an actual storefront, but those sort of watchmakers are less common than they once were.
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Om3ga321
·-2 sec/+5sec a day.
Is this how accurate one wants to live their life?
I just enjoy the watches.One must accept some variance.
Is this how accurate one wants to live their life?
I just enjoy the watches.One must accept some variance.
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VetPsychWars
·Depending on the specific METAS caliber, the tolerances for average daily rate are 0 to 5, 0 to 6, or 0 to 7 seconds per day. Omega also has a target rate that they aim for, and it's not a hard and fast rule, but sort of a guideline, and in most cases that target average rate is +3 seconds per day. This is because people are far more willing to accept a watch running 3 seconds fast per day, then even is second slow on their wrist, even though the 1 second slow is more accurate.
I am lucky in that, with a target rate of +3, my watches run between 0 and +1 on the wrist, with the occasional small gain or loss depending on whether I've done something "unusual" that day.
Tom
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Boston Bert
·Watches I’ve had serviced often don’t come back as fastidiously regulated as when they left the factory. I think the QC departments at Swiss factories have greater influence on enforcing specs than customers have on doing the same on service center watch makers. One more reason never to service a watch unless something is dramatically wrong with it.
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VetPsychWars
·Watches I’ve had serviced often don’t come back as fastidiously regulated as when they left the factory. I think the QC departments at Swiss factories have greater influence on enforcing specs than customers have on doing the same on service center watch makers. One more reason never to service a watch unless something is dramatically wrong with it.
I assure you that Omega factory service returns watches back to original specification and many independent watchmakers will as well. Your recommendation is nonsense and guaranteed to ensure that when it DOES require service that more parts will require replacement. How would you feel if someone took this advice with a vintage watch that can't be returned to good timekeeping because parts can't be found?
Tom
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Foo2rama
··Nowhere near as grumpy as he used to be...For god sake. I asked you "What average rate should you be happy with on META calibers?" no one is answering the question!
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Hduck
·For god sake. I asked you "What average rate should you be happy with on META calibers?" no one is answering the question!
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Hduck
·Yes, of course watches can be regulated. The issue here is not that it can't be regulated, but that the OP is not satisfied with the tolerances from Omega.
Depending on the specific METAS caliber, the tolerances for average daily rate are 0 to 5, 0 to 6, or 0 to 7 seconds per day. Omega also has a target rate that they aim for, and it's not a hard and fast rule, but sort of a guideline, and in most cases that target average rate is +3 seconds per day. This is because people are far more willing to accept a watch running 3 seconds fast per day, then even is second slow on their wrist, even though the 1 second slow is more accurate.
Archer. I always look forward to your posts. I learn something interesting from each of them. I'm curious as to why 1 second slow is more accurate.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerArcher. I always look forward to your posts. I learn something interesting from each of them. I'm curious as to why 1 second slow is more accurate.
If "zero" is perfect, then -1 is closer to zero than +3 is. Or as someone's spouse here tells him " 'cause math "...😉
