Watchmaker advice needed

DrSpock · Mar 10, 2022

Hello, my little problem:
I have a stem with crown removed from a caliber 861, because I had the case of the watch laser welded (looks gorgeous by the way, pictures follow) in a different country and no watchmaker available at that time
Now I want to put the stem back inside, but I am facing following problem: The crown with stem slides into the movement, I can set the hour & minute hand but I am unable to wind the movement in order to „charge it“. Furthermore I have the impression that the stem is not completely back in the movement (maybe 1-2 mm )
I’ve read about the common mistake to „overturn“ the screw of the stem , and tried to avoid this. Maybe I wasn’t careful enough?

Thanks for any advice

ext1 · Mar 10, 2022

Just my opinion, you probably didn't screw the detente screw hard enough in. I think clockwise is to tighten. The overturn mistake you've heard about is probably taking the screw out completely via counter clockwise, which apparently you have to disassemble the whole movement to put back in.
To put the stem in completely before you tighten press gently on the screw and push the stem in (only if the screw is tightened already).

However it might be also that your stem is short or something.. not so sure about what else could be the problem.

watchyouwant · Mar 10, 2022

Buy a new stem. Will be too short and needs wriggling and trying and.... New stem solves that problem. Just have to cut to the right lengths. Grip the existing stem with small pliers on the thread just under the crown and unscrew the crown. Cut the new stem a bit longer than your existing one, screw on the crown and adjust until fits. Kind regards. Achim

Archer · Mar 10, 2022

Remove the stem from the movement again.

When you are inserting the stem back into the movement, use the screwdriver that you turned the screw with, and push the screw down with it. Then push the stem in and it should go all the way in. Then you can screw down the detention screw.

You don’t need a new stem unless something else was changed, like the case tube or crown.

Cheers, Al

DrSpock · Mar 10, 2022

Thanks for you help guys so far!
But I think I have messed it up somehow.
I can’t turn the screw counterclockwise without more than light pressure (don’t want to break something, if I didn’t do so already)
The Chrono reset pusher won’t work, seems like it’s stuck plus the crown can be pushed towards the case and while doing so ä, makes a click noise.
I think I have to find a watchmaker?
Any ideas?

DrSpock · Mar 11, 2022

Never mind , just gave it to a watchmaker I was recommended. He was shaking his head and looked reproachfully at me, but seems to be able to fix it (by dismantling the whole movement)
Lessons learned (the hard way)

Archer · Mar 11, 2022

DrSpock
Never mind , just gave it to a watchmaker I was recommended. He was shaking his head and looked reproachfully at me, but seems to be able to fix it (by dismantling the whole movement)
Lessons learned (the hard way)

You would only have to remove the dial and hands to get at the setting mechanism. But the watchmaker may not do partial jobs, so may be insisting on a full service.

DrSpock · Mar 11, 2022

Archer
You would only have to remove the dial and hands to get at the setting mechanism. But the watchmaker may not do partial jobs, so may be insisting on a full service.

Yes, I think that’s the reason, let’s hope he knows what he’s doing.

TIMElyBehaviour · Mar 12, 2022

I’m an amateur watchmaker and I did the same thing with a cal 286. I removed the hands and dial, repositioned the setting lever after dismantling the keyless works and putting it back together again. Call it a 30 min job for a beginner but yes, if you apply pressure on the screw then you are effectively pushing the setting lever out of alignment and possibly end up snapping the setting lever spring which is additional cost.
Watchmakers tend to do an end to end service to ensure that when you get the watch back, there won’t be any issue with it. They can’t guarantee what they don’t work on.

Hope it comes back safe and sound.

Archer · Mar 13, 2022

TIMElyBehaviour
if you apply pressure on the screw then you are effectively pushing the setting lever out of alignment and possibly end up snapping the setting lever spring which is additional cost.

Pushing on the screw is how you get the stem out without unscrewing the detent screw too far. This is a standard practice, and will not damage anything unless you are very ham fisted.

There are countless watches that have no screw, and where you press on the detent to remove the stem - if what you stated were the case these designs would not exist. Most Omega movements from the 550 series onwards do not use a screw - you press on the detent to release the stem. Modern watches like the ETA 2824, 2892, 7750, etc. all use this system.

TIMElyBehaviour · Mar 13, 2022

Archer
Pushing on the screw is how you get the stem out without unscrewing the detent screw too far. This is a standard practice, and will not damage anything unless you are very ham fisted.

There are countless watches that have no screw, and where you press on the detent to remove the stem - if what you stated were the case these designs would not exist. Most Omega movements from the 550 series onwards do not use a screw - you press on the detent to release the stem. Modern watches like the ETA 2824, 2892, 7750, etc. all use this system.

From every movement I have come across you either unscrew and remove the crown stem or there isn’t a screw and you press down. The screw type is a screw that is sandwiched between the mainspring bridge and the main plate and screws into the setting lever. Like on a 286 if you push too hard you dislodge the setting lever.

the push down type is spring loaded from the setting lever spring. It has an extra part coming off it that is like a plate and when you press down from the other side is disengages the crown stem. So I don’t know what you are talking about quite frankly but I’ll chalk that up to my experience level I guess because you sound adamant that you are correct and I clearly have only serviced 8 types of moment at this far.

Archer · Mar 13, 2022

TIMElyBehaviour
From every movement I have come across you either unscrew and remove the crown stem or there isn’t a screw and you press down. The screw type is a screw that is sandwiched between the mainspring bridge and the main plate and screws into the setting lever. Like on a 286 if you push too hard you dislodge the setting lever.

the push down type is spring loaded from the setting lever spring. It has an extra part coming off it that is like a plate and when you press down from the other side is disengages the crown stem. So I don’t know what you are talking about quite frankly but I’ll chalk that up to my experience level I guess because you sound adamant that you are correct and I clearly have only serviced 8 types of moment at this far.

Well, I’m a watchmaker and service watches for a living. I service more Speedmasters than any other model of watch. I’ve serviced hundreds of them, and never once have I dislodged or broken anything by unscrewing the setting lever screw and then pressing down slightly on the screw to release the stem. When I've been for training at Omega, the instructors didn’t caution against doing this either.

So yes, I’m pretty confident that the risks you speak of are really not big concerns...

TIMElyBehaviour · Mar 13, 2022

Archer
Well, I’m a watchmaker and service watches for a living. I service more Speedmasters than any other model of watch. I’ve serviced hundreds of them, and never once have I dislodged or broken anything by unscrewing the setting lever screw and then pressing down slightly on the screw to release the stem. When I've been for training at Omega, the instructors didn’t caution against doing this either.

So yes, I’m pretty confident that the risks you speak of are really not big concerns...

Then I bow down to your knowledge and experience oh great watchmaker.
Here’s a tip, you may fix watches well but your people skills suck. Maybe take a course on that or see if omega have something that can help you there.

TIMElyBehaviour · Mar 13, 2022

I’ll tell you what, I’ll even help you out.

if you explain to someone why their idea won’t work and explain the correct method they are receptive. If you throw your credentials at them and act pompous they will basically take you as serious as a ball juggling clown.

Dan S · Mar 13, 2022

TIMElyBehaviour
Then I bow down to your knowledge and experience oh great watchmaker.
Here’s a tip, you may fix watches well but your people skills suck. Maybe take a course on that or see if omega have something that can help you there.

TIMElyBehaviour
I’ll tell you what, I’ll even help you out.

if you explain to someone why their idea won’t work and explain the correct method they are receptive. If you throw your credentials at them and act pompous they will basically take you as serious as a ball juggling clown.

Interesting. When I read the thread, it looks like Al is explaining things in a sufficiently detailed and matter-of-fact way, freely sharing his knowledge and expertise, and I don't see any signs of pomposity ... just facts.

On the other hand, some people have a hard time accepting when they are wrong ... and resort to calling people names while throwing tantrums. Actually very common these days, unfortunately.

TIMElyBehaviour · Mar 13, 2022

Dan S
Interesting. When I read the thread, it looks like Al is explaining things in a sufficiently detailed and matter-of-fact way, freely sharing his knowledge and expertise, and I don't see any signs of pomposity ... just facts.

On the other hand, some people don't like being wrong ... and throw tantrums.

Happy to be corrected. I enjoy watchmaking and love learning about it. I see an explanation as far as I remove the screw and press down.
I voiced my opinion and I’m sure now it is wrong. Happy and free to admit I AM WRONG. What shits me is that he didn’t explain why you need to push down as well as unscrew. Is there a spring loaded portion there as well? Is it standard and I have been doing it wrong? Who knows, because I wasn’t told.
Instead of this I got “well I’m an omega certified watch maker and I have been doing this for years and I work on these all the time……”

explain, allow others to understand and contribute and hey, we all might learn something new.

watchyouwant · Mar 13, 2022

TIMElyBehaviour
I’ll tell you what, I’ll even help you out.

if you explain to someone why their idea won’t work and explain the correct method they are receptive. If you throw your credentials at them and act pompous they will basically take you as serious as a ball juggling clown.

Stop now. Your pompous behaviour has no place here. Archer is the most helpful Watchmaker and dedicated his time to guide members here , if they have a problem. He throws his skills around, if needed . You throw insults around. Not needed here. If you feel the urge to reply, it will not get better. Kind regards. Achim

TIMElyBehaviour · Mar 13, 2022

watchyouwant
Stop now. Your pompous behaviour has no place here. Archer is the most helpful Watchmaker and dedicated his time to guide members here , if they have a problem. He throws his skills around, if needed . You throw insults around. Not needed here. If you feel the urge to reply, it will not get better. Kind regards. Achim

If I was out of line then I apologise to yourself and the rest of the forum members.

I can understand that when you have a forum member that has been around for a long time with vast knowledge and has contributed much, that when you see a newer member come on and have a go it’s not warranted.

totally understand and again, apologise.
But forums are to learn and teach, be part of a community and to share ideas.

Archer · Mar 13, 2022

TIMElyBehaviour
Then I bow down to your knowledge and experience oh great watchmaker.
Here’s a tip, you may fix watches well but your people skills suck. Maybe take a course on that or see if omega have something that can help you there.

You appear to have taken my posts personally. I can assure you they are not personal in nature. I was simply correcting misinformation that was posted, that this would lead to displacement of parts and possibly damage. It won’t.

I told you of my experience and credentials because you stated that I sounded “adamant that I was correct”, so I was explaining where that comes from. It comes from years of experience and training from the brand in question.

If you didn’t fully understand the reasoning behind my comments, all you have to do is ask.

If you unscrew the detent screw far enough to release the stem directly, you risk unscrewing it too far...it’s happened to me. By unscrewing it less and pressing down on the screw, you are able to release the stem without risking the screw becoming disconnected from the setting lever, requiring the removal of the hands and dial.

I am willing to help anyone who wants to learn watchmaking who is willing to listen. If you have any specific questions, please let me know and I’ll do my best to help,

I have posted many threads here with tips on watchmaking procedures to help people just like you. If you search for threads with “basic watchmaking tips” in the title, you may find them useful. I have more of these threads in the queue, but I am waiting for a dedicated section of the forum to post them in that the mods have said they are considering. Right now all the work I put into these gets buried in the bowels of the forum.

Cheers, Al

TIMElyBehaviour · Mar 13, 2022

Archer
You appear to have taken my posts personally. I can assure you they are not personal in nature. I was simply correcting misinformation that was posted, that this would lead to displacement of parts and possibly damage. It won’t.

I told you of my experience and credentials because you stated that I sounded “adamant that I was correct”, so I was explaining where that comes from. It comes from years of experience and training from the brand in question.

If you didn’t fully understand the reasoning behind my comments, all you have to do is ask.

If you unscrew the detent screw far enough to release the stem directly, you risk unscrewing it too far...it’s happened to me. By unscrewing it less and pressing down on the screw, you are able to release the stem without risking the screw becoming disconnected from the setting lever, requiring the removal of the hands and dial.

I am willing to help anyone who wants to learn watchmaking who is willing to listen. If you have any specific questions, please let me know and I’ll do my best to help,

I have posted many threads here with tips on watchmaking procedures to help people just like you. If you search for threads with “basic watchmaking tips” in the title, you may find them useful. I have more of these threads in the queue, but I am waiting for a dedicated section of the forum to post them in that the mods have said they are considering. Right now all the work I put into these gets buried in the bowels of the forum.

Cheers, Al

I apologise for prev comments and yes without a valid explanation as to why and to throw around credentials like that is going to make me just take your word verbatim made me take it personally.

happy to learn but to learn it needs to be explained.
If you write it as you just did then I would have agreed and learns something new today with out the soap opera drama that entailed.

on text conversations it is sometimes hard without knowing the person to determine the “mood” of the text.

Watchmaker advice needed

DrSpock

ext1

watchyouwant

Archer

DrSpock

DrSpock

Archer

DrSpock

TIMElyBehaviour

Archer

TIMElyBehaviour

Archer

TIMElyBehaviour

TIMElyBehaviour

Dan S

TIMElyBehaviour

watchyouwant

TIMElyBehaviour

Archer

TIMElyBehaviour

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