Vintage watch dealers - how many of them are actually trustworthy?

Cars, watches, horses: all the same. In the end it is about making money

I think there are two kinds of vintage dealers;

1. Some either aren’t able to identify redials or simply do not understand how and why it impacts on value.
I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve messaged such dealers and received rude or confused replies along the lines of “don’t be ridiculous/get lost, this watch is 60 years old, of course we’ve had the dial repainted, otherwise it would look terrible”, or “thanks but you’re wrong, this dial with thick, wonky text and misaligned markers is original”.
These dealers don’t seem to be out to deceive, they genuinely think redialling is what the end user wants (and in many cases perhaps they’re right).

2. On the other hand, other, often ‘insta/forum’ type dealers are generally much more aware of redials and their impact on value and have the ability to identify them. However, they tend to fall into two types, good and honest but expensive, or willingly deceitful, using creative language to avoid outright saying “the dial isn’t original”.
There is a subset of these dealers who are honest, knowledgeable and reasonably priced but they’re few and far between and unless you know what you’re talking about, hard to identify.

Not very many who I would consider to be trustworthy.. That being said, there are a few good guys. I have purchased three watches from James Kibble from his shop in London and I have never had a problem.

I purchased my Ranchero from James. Rancheros are well known to be redialed or even worse as out and out fraudulent. James sold me the real thing from a reasonable price.

I’m disappointed to see that it’s included in his listed, but I do note that he did disclose in his listed that the watch has been redialed.

I have purchased from Brick and mortar, brokers and private sellers. Brick and mortar can be trustworthy but they have overhead pressures that can lead to pressing behavior. Brokers are an excellent alternative. They need to maintain their reputations. Private sellers are great here, mixed bag on places like EB CC24. Your best bet is is to know your product well enough and caveat emptor. Don’t be hasty.

I get quite a few dealer purchased watches brought to me with varying claims. Often there is a claim of the watch being "fully serviced by our watchmaker" just like this most recent watch had. Further they claimed balance amplitude of 270 degrees, and a daily rate of +6 seconds.



Incoming inspection revealed that the balance amplitude did not exceed the high 240's fully wound, and it was averaging a slight loss.

The customer had just received it literally a couple of days before I took these photos, yet the case was dirty:



When I opened the case it was clear that the case back seal was very old - not something I would expect to see in a freshly serviced watch:



Of course the watch failed the pressure testing, and when I removed the seal, it basically turned to powder:



In my initial inspection, I could see that the jewels were dry:



The escapement was dry and dirty:



The easiest thing to remove was this bridge for the sweep seconds:



Looking at the underside of the jewel, the oil is dried and only heavy residue is left behind:



Based on these findings, I was asked to service the watch, and during the disassembly I checked more jewels - they were all dry:



The balance jewels were dry:



The movement was fully serviced by me, performing well within Omega specs, and in the end passed the pressure testing. I realize that this thread is more about redials and originality, but that is not the only area where dealers are frequently dishonest. In this case it's pretty clear that the claim the watch was serviced is a flat out lie - this watch hadn't been serviced in decades. This isn't some small unknown dealer either - this bi-valve dealer is often spoken of here and often in good terms. On this one they clearly fell short, and the customer had to spend extra money to get what they paid for - a fully serviced watch.

Far from the only example of this behaviour by dealers, but just the most recent that has come across my bench.

In my experience, high-end Japanese dealers tend to be the most trustworthy. It's a cultural thing.

I’ve not bought from them, but I e mailed them about a high dollar UG redial they had on sale years ago. They responded immediately thanking me and delisted the watch. Good folks.