This isn't some small unknown dealer either - this bi-valve dealer is often spoken of here and often in good terms. On this one they clearly fell short, and the customer had to spend extra money to get what they paid for - a fully serviced watch.
TThis isn't some small unknown dealer either - this bi-valve dealer is often spoken of here and often in good terms. On this one they clearly fell short, and the customer had to spend extra money to get what they paid for - a fully serviced watch.
Far from the only example of this behaviour by dealers, but just the most recent that has come across my bench.
Name and shame?
It would help future buyers. Most would be pissed if buying a watch disclosed as "serviced", only for it not to be true.
I get quite a few dealer purchased watches brought to me with varying claims. Often there is a claim of the watch being "fully serviced by our watchmaker" just like this most recent watch had. Further they claimed balance amplitude of 270 degrees, and a daily rate of +6 seconds.
Incoming inspection revealed that the balance amplitude did not exceed the high 240's fully wound, and it was averaging a slight loss.
The customer had just received it literally a couple of days before I took these photos, yet the case was dirty:
When I opened the case it was clear that the case back seal was very old - not something I would expect to see in a freshly serviced watch:
Of course the watch failed the pressure testing, and when I removed the seal, it basically turned to powder:
In my initial inspection, I could see that the jewels were dry:
The escapement was dry and dirty:
The easiest thing to remove was this bridge for the sweep seconds:
Looking at the underside of the jewel, the oil is dried and only heavy residue is left behind:
Based on these findings, I was asked to service the watch, and during the disassembly I checked more jewels - they were all dry:
The balance jewels were dry:
The movement was fully serviced by me, performing well within Omega specs, and in the end passed the pressure testing. I realize that this thread is more about redials and originality, but that is not the only area where dealers are frequently dishonest. In this case it's pretty clear that the claim the watch was serviced is a flat out lie - this watch hadn't been serviced in decades. This isn't some small unknown dealer either - this bi-valve dealer is often spoken of here and often in good terms. On this one they clearly fell short, and the customer had to spend extra money to get what they paid for - a fully serviced watch.
Far from the only example of this behaviour by dealers, but just the most recent that has come across my bench.
I get quite a few dealer purchased watches brought to me with varying claims. Often there is a claim of the watch being "fully serviced by our watchmaker" just like this most recent watch had. Further they claimed balance amplitude of 270 degrees, and a daily rate of +6 seconds.
Incoming inspection revealed that the balance amplitude did not exceed the high 240's fully wound, and it was averaging a slight loss.
The customer had just received it literally a couple of days before I took these photos, yet the case was dirty:
When I opened the case it was clear that the case back seal was very old - not something I would expect to see in a freshly serviced watch:
Of course the watch failed the pressure testing, and when I removed the seal, it basically turned to powder:
In my initial inspection, I could see that the jewels were dry:
The escapement was dry and dirty:
The easiest thing to remove was this bridge for the sweep seconds:
Looking at the underside of the jewel, the oil is dried and only heavy residue is left behind:
Based on these findings, I was asked to service the watch, and during the disassembly I checked more jewels - they were all dry:
The balance jewels were dry:
The movement was fully serviced by me, performing well within Omega specs, and in the end passed the pressure testing. I realize that this thread is more about redials and originality, but that is not the only area where dealers are frequently dishonest. In this case it's pretty clear that the claim the watch was serviced is a flat out lie - this watch hadn't been serviced in decades. This isn't some small unknown dealer either - this bi-valve dealer is often spoken of here and often in good terms. On this one they clearly fell short, and the customer had to spend extra money to get what they paid for - a fully serviced watch.
Far from the only example of this behaviour by dealers, but just the most recent that has come across my bench.
It reminds me of an ex member here who operates out of Europe. He admitted that he doesn’t service any watches unless they’re not running but offers a warranty, reasoning that having to take a warranty repair on 1 in 5-10 watches sold is more cost effective than proactively servicing every watch prior to sale.
I suspect the difference between 'good' dealers and 'bad' dealers is they both claim recently serviced, but the 'good' ones will respond to the complaint with "oh no, let me have my watchmaker take another look!" instead of "well, that is running within spec!" (or, "its vintage, what do you expect".
I dunno, I’d expect a good dealer to have actually serviced a watch they claim has been recently serviced, or just be honest and say “running fine but service history unknown”.
Most collectors have no issue with doing this so why is it so hard for dealers?
Of course I kinda know the answer, it’s that the margins in dealing vintage watches, especially at a net level when you have overheads, are actually pretty slim unless you’re charging a real premium.
It reminds me of an ex member here who operates out of Europe. He admitted that he doesn’t service any watches unless they’re not running but offers a warranty, reasoning that having to take a warranty repair on 1 in 5-10 watches sold is more cost effective than proactively servicing every watch prior to sale.
His buyers do not want to pay for a service. You may interpret that as: I can’t make a margin if I have to service them before selling
This is another fantastic point. Last year I purchased a watch from wattsonwatches.
Again more of an Instagram watch dealer but seems trustworthy on the redial front. Quality listing and honest descriptions bar one thing: servicing. When the watch arrived the movement was knocking in the case (is was a 60s seamaster). Took it to my local watchmaker who’s also a close friend and told me despite the fact watts has described it as “fully serviced by our watchmaker” it had in fact not been serviced at all. Terrible results on the timegrapher and the movement was incredibly dry.
It’s frustrating as if the watch was sold as seen but running I wouldnt mind. Or pay the extra to actually have it serviced and sell it for a higher price.
When I contacted them about the rotor knocking they initially tried to tell me “some vintage watches do this, it’s normal” to which I replied “I have plenty of experience with vintage watches and they certainly don’t. Despite the push back and them trying to portray the fault as normal they did offer for me to send it back to inspect (at my cost) but absolutely insisted it had been serviced so there was no hope of them covering the cost for that despite them falsely claiming it had been when it hadn’t.
Needless to say I returned it for a refund, losing my initial shipping cost and having to pay for return shipping cost.
I wouldn’t buy from them again. Seems there really are slim pickings when it comes to honest dealers.
That’s a shame to hear. I follow them and like their content. I think it’s one thing if they took what you said and tried to remedy the situation, but to just say that’s how it is with some vintage watches is disappointing.
Think of all the people that don’t have the knowledge that they get away with saying that to.
That being said, I just had a great experience at Wind Vintage.. they had a watch I was looking for in a condition I found very difficult to find anywhere else. Very easy to deal and transparent.
Even Wind Vintage has his controversial listings. I remember this supposedly "NOS" 62MAS, from a few months ago on Reddit.
Fair enough but wow that 62MAS is in stunning condition. Amazing watch and somewhat rare.
There are great dealers out there but with vintage it’s just hard, I don’t think you can ever just blindly trust someone.. which is a big part of why I like vintage. It’s hard and takes effort to get right.
