Vintage Cosmic Dial

dan7800 · Oct 14, 2017

Here are some photos of the watch after redial. Please let me know if I should upload any more

ChrisN · Oct 14, 2017

Sadly, it looks like a redial to me. If you look at the number 5 marker, you'll see it doesn't agree with the fine track of the seconds. It seems to have the same applied furniture at 12, 3, 6 and 9 as your original but with some strange filling at 12 so, it could have been your original dial repainted. It's a bit odd as half of the "Swiss made" at the lower seems to be missing and I can't see why someone would mess up a redial work like that.

Did they tell you the case reference on the receipt? It will be something like 166.036. Seems it would be best to source a new dial/watchmaker but, let's see what the others say.

Is that crown fully in?

Regards, Chris

Foo2rama · Oct 14, 2017

The issue isn't the quality of the redial. The issue is why redial it at all. The dial was perfect.

kingsrider · Oct 14, 2017

It is a very bad redial. If you want a list of why it is bad, I can elaborate.

mikechi22 · Oct 14, 2017

Davidt
Talk about conspiracy theories! The OP stated he paid $450 for the service so far. That's a lot for this (especially since it still hasn't fixed the issue) so the cost of the refinish was covered there. Perhaps the movement has barely been touched at the 'watchmaker' simply gave it s cosmetic overhaul?
Don't forget we're talking about a 70's Cosmic, not a Deluxe or an applied logo Speedmaster. It's highly unlikely someone's swapped out the dial to steal it!

The going rate for service is at least $350 for labor. Just seems weird that a watch repair guy would send out the dial for refinishing, unbidden by the client.

dan7800 · Oct 14, 2017

I don't think I will ever really know why it was redialed. I couldn't get any answers from my jeweler. He claimed it was the original dial, but covered? (forge the exact term) over. I asked why and he said he didn't know.

They gave me NOTHING on the receipt. They refused to provide any documentation of anything. Said it wasn't my business (I obviously had things to say about this).

The crown is not fully in and will not go in. The watch is also not functional. The jeweler wanted to "make it right" by sending it back to the watchmaker. I wasn't going to let him touch it again.

I made it painfully clear when I dropped it off that it was a family heirloom and I wanted to keep it vintage.

Right now, I need to find a trusted repair company to send the watch to so I can get an estimate how much it will take to fix and find out what else this guy screwed up.

ChrisN · Oct 14, 2017

As you say, you'll probably never know so, as a way forward. In my opinion:

If you paid by credit card, approach your card supplier and say the watch doesn't work and has been damaged.

Get it to a watchmaker fairly local who is recommended and talk to him. I think you said NY so, someone must have a recommendation.

A watchmaker with Omega account might be able to source a dial but, there are a few dials out there in watch suppliers if they can't. You do need to have the case number. I looked at some of my suppliers and found this but, it's obviously not suitable as it's not for a date watch and the furniture is not gold.
You may be lucky and find one though. I'm just making the point that some people do have old dials.

Regards, Chris

dan7800 · Oct 14, 2017

Thanks Chris. I called the credit card company today, and they said they need a letter from another watch repair location stating that the watch doesn't work and that the repairs were not properly done.

I live in Western NY (6 hour drive from NYC). I don't suspect there are any highly recommend repair places to be local, but if anyone knows anyplace in Western NY, please PM me and I can give you my city. Unless folks recommend against it, I am not adverse to mailing the watch to a reputable repair location for the documentation for the refund and to have the repair done right.

Thanks all. Everyone on this forum is amazing as far as their knowledge and just being good people in general.

Archer · Oct 14, 2017

mikechi22
The going rate for service is at least $350 for labor. Just seems weird that a watch repair guy would send out the dial for refinishing, unbidden by the client.

Yes, that would be odd, but not if he somehow damaged the dial and had to cover up his mistake.

ChrisN
A watchmaker with Omega account might be able to source a dial but, there are a few dials out there in watch suppliers if they can't. You do need to have the case number.

This being a Cosmic there's a good chance the case number may be stamped on the outside of the case - if the OP can post photos of the back or read the numbers ad post them, I'll check to see if a dial is available.

Archer · Oct 14, 2017

ChrisN
It appears to be a 565 calibre. If so, parts availability for this calibre is excellent and it is extremely unlikely that the date issue can't be fixed - I'm assuming it doesn't change on it's own only by pulling the crown out?

Good luck.

Regards, Chris

Looking at the dial, it doesn't have "Automatic" under Omega, so this may be a manual wind 610 in this one...

dan7800 · Oct 14, 2017

It may be tough to tell from the photo, but the numbers are:

Seamaster
Waterproof
136017 sp tool 107

Getting a replacement dial is obviously nice and much appreciated. Right now, I believe that my most pressing issue is to find a trusted repair person. With having no info/dealing with an incapable watch repair, I have no idea what is actually going on with the watch. I know that the stem does't go in all the way, and the date doesn't change.

dan7800 · Oct 14, 2017

Archer
Looking at the dial, it doesn't have "Automatic" under Omega, so this may be a manual wind 610 in this one...

Yes, it is a manual wind.

Archer · Oct 14, 2017

dan7800
136017 sp tool 107.

Yes, so this has a manual wind Cal. 610 inside, and the dial for this would be a 064TT0814011P. It is unfortunately discontinued, and the closest replacement that is available from Omega would be the 064TT0814010P, which is very close but has no lume and no crosshairs.

You have said there are problems with the date and that the watch is non-functional. Can you explain exactly what that means? Does the watch run at all? Does the date change when the watch is just left running and passes midnight? Does it change when you advance the hands using the crown?

Cheers, Al

dan7800 · Oct 14, 2017

If I cannot find a new dial, would the next step be to find one on ebay, maybe canabalize another watch?

The watch runs and seems to keep time ok (I haven't watched it run for long)

One issue I notice is with the stem. It doesn't completely fit into the case, and when I pull it out, it doesn't feel right (almost like the stem is going to pop out of the watch). It feels forced and unnatural.

The quick date feature seems to work most of the time, but when winding the watch passed midnight, about 50% of the time, the date gets stuck in the middle of two numbers. I can supply a higher-res photo, but I think the attached image should give you a good idea of what I mean. This is the same problem the watch was having before the second "expert" repair person tried to fix the watch. Before this second person got it, it had the original dial.

Archer · Oct 14, 2017

You would have to find a dial somewhere - might take a lot of searching to find one that was correct for the watch, and it's possible you may have to get one from another watch.

I would not expect this to have a quick set date - that means that you pull the crown past the time setting position and it flips the date forward one day, and if you push the crown back in and pull it out again it will flip one more day. If it does have this kind of quick set, it would be a Cal. 613 inside.

The date mechanism on these does have some parts that should be upgraded at service if they are the old version - I would have expected an Omega expert to have done this during the service. Certainly the date should not get stuck half way through the date change, and there could be several reasons for this happening. The stem not going all the way in could just mean they didn't trim it to fit the crown properly.

Cheers, Al

dan7800 · Oct 14, 2017

Archer
You would have to find a dial somewhere - might take a lot of searching to find one that was correct for the watch, and it's possible you may have to get one from another watch.

I would not expect this to have a quick set date - that means that you pull the crown past the time setting position and it flips the date forward one day, and if you push the crown back in and pull it out again it will flip one more day. If it does have this kind of quick set, it would be a Cal. 613 inside.

The date mechanism on these does have some parts that should be upgraded at service if they are the old version - I would have expected an Omega expert to have done this during the service. Certainly the date should not get stuck half way through the date change, and there could be several reasons for this happening. The stem not going all the way in could just mean they didn't trim it to fit the crown properly.

Cheers, Al

Thanks again for the help. The watch is a quick set, exactly as you described. That is the way it worked prior to me originally taking it in for service. Based on my memory, 613 sounds correct.

My plan moving forward is to get an estimate from a good repair shop for repairing the watch and attaining an authentic dial. I plan on submitting the cost to replace the dial to the repair shop that took the original dial. If they refuse, I guess that is when I take them to court.

dan7800 · Nov 7, 2017

So I've been searching for new dials for the watch. I think my best bet for a vintage dial is to buy another watch and cannibalize it. One question I have is this:

Many of the watches seem to have bits of "gunk" at the 5 minute markers that didn't seem to be present in my original dial. What are these? (my original dial is on top for reference) - Not surprisingly, when contacted the sellers claim that the dials are all original and have not been retouched.

Speedmasterfan88 · Nov 7, 2017

That "gunk" is the tritium luminescent material. Used to glow in the dark after exposure to a light source, or daylight during wear , so you can read the time in bad light conditions. AN omega marked "t Swiss made T" dial should have those dots, as "T" stands for tritium.

Dials with the original tritium still present will hold more value for collectors! As it can be an indicator to an untouched original dial. Also often tritium degrades into a creamy yellow color, giving the watch a nice "vintage" patina. But colors vary, from light yellow to grey, green and sometimes white.

So all is good with the dials above that have those "gunk" dots 😉. Keep in mind that there are "relumed" dials out there, meaning he original tritium was scraped off and replaced with something else. If you want to be sure about the lumen on the dial, exposed it to an UV lamp. It should still glow under the UV. If exposed to bright light old tritium should still glow for a few seconds but then fade out. So if you have a dial that still glows like a modern watch after exposure to a light source it's most likely relumed.

Tritium was outlawed for the use in watches in the early 90's (it's slightly radioactive) so if you send your whatch in for a service, especially at omega, they will usually scrape of the tritium and replace
It with the modern superluminova. One more reason not to send it to omega for service as this will reduce the originality and value(for collectors) of your watch.

That's my knowledge of tritium, the pro's may correct me if there's something wrong with my explanation. 😉.

Hope that clears it up for you @dan7800 .

Cheers,

Max