Vintage Cosmic Dial

Foo2rama · Oct 11, 2017

The watch now has a different crown too...

Call them calmly and ask why you have a different watch then what you sent them. Find out if you can legally record them in your state without knowledge and record the phone call and if needed tell them. Most states allow you but a quick google search can tell you.

If they dodge you file a police report. It clearly a less valuable watch that you have with definite differences that adversely affect the value of the time piece with no reason to have been done.

TropicConnie · Oct 12, 2017

Looks like a redial has been replaced with a factory service dial to me. My reasoning being, in my experience all original Omega dials with cross-hairs have them go through the text without the gaps seen in your 'before' photos. It's a bit hard to be certain though, since your after photos have the hour hand partially covering the Omega logo.

dsio · Oct 12, 2017

TropicConnie
My reasoning being, in my experience all original Omega dials with cross-hairs have them go through the text without the gaps seen in your 'before' photos.

There are many crosshair dials where the line stops before the text including on Cosmics, its not an uncommon thing at all to find especially in the late 60s to 70s period.

dan7800 · Oct 12, 2017

Foo2rama
The watch now has a different crown too...

Call them calmly and ask why you have a different watch then what you sent them. Find out if you can legally record them in your state without knowledge and record the phone call and if needed tell them. Most states allow you but a quick google search can tell you.

If they dodge you file a police report. It clearly a less valuable watch that you have with definite differences that adversely affect the value of the time piece with no reason to have been done.

I can go directly to the store and speak with them. They already admitted that it was a redial.

The crown should be different as it was replaced (the old one split). I am not saying they couldn't have used the original crown, but their story was that it needed replacing.

I do have questions if they are trying to give me back the original watch. I've been trying to match up light scuff marks on the back with photos I have of it. Obviously, at this point I don't trust anything they have to say. The only thing that I would consider is that if they were trying to give me back a different watch, wouldn't they try to give me back one that was at least working?

Thanks for the help all

dan7800 · Oct 12, 2017

Had it out with the company. They said they were still "looking for answers". I asked for a detailed receipt about parts and they replied that's not they way they operate and it's none of my business. I told them I wanted a refund for service, the original dial, stem and watch back in 24 hours or I was going to file a police report. Hopefully this is coming to an end and I can get the watch repaired by a reputable person.

ChrisN · Oct 12, 2017

dan7800
All,
A few months ago I made a major mistake and let a local watch company "who knew a fantastic Omega Repair person" repair my grandfather's watch Seamaster Cosmic.... A HUGE mistake I know....

Was this a jeweller you used, who sent the watch off? One possible issue is that you're not able to discuss with the watchmaker himself (who, incidentally, probably received half of what you were charged). Not all watchmakers are the best businessmen but you should be clear what you're charging for labour, parts and so on as if not, you're not going to be balancing the books. If they did send it off, the watchmaker must have supplied them with an invoice unless he's just hired on a retainer and paid a fixed rate for every job.

It may be that he changed the dial because it already had a broken dial foot, for example, and being one discussion removed from you thought this was the best way to go (obviously, there are others). On the other hand, as he didn't fix the date issue (not sure what it was), it may be: that he was allocated little time/given little money/couldn't find the parts/it was not fixable/he's not very good. I doubt you'll ever know although it looks to me like he sourced a service dial which is not easy so, the parts issue is probably not valid.

As you've already worked out, it would be best to deal directly with your watchmaker if you can from this point. Good luck and I hope you get everything back.👍

Cheers, Chris

ConElPueblo · Oct 12, 2017

I can't help but notice that you mention that "the old crown split". You know that this is intentional, right? The crown was probably replaced in order to help with keeping out moisture etc. as the seal would have perished in the old one.

dan7800 · Oct 12, 2017

ChrisN
Was this a jeweller you used, who sent the watch off? One possible issue is that you're not able to discuss with the watchmaker himself (who, incidentally, probably received half of what you were charged). Not all watchmakers are the best businessmen but you should be clear what you're charging for labour, parts and so on as if not, you're not going to be balancing the books. If they did send it off, the watchmaker must have supplied them with an invoice unless he's just hired on a retainer and paid a fixed rate for every job.

It may be that he changed the dial because it already had a broken dial foot, for example, and being one discussion removed from you thought this was the best way to go (obviously, there are others). On the other hand, as he didn't fix the date issue (not sure what it was), it may be: that he was allocated little time/given little money/couldn't find the parts/it was not fixable/he's not very good. I doubt you'll ever know although it looks to me like he sourced a service dial which is not easy so, the parts issue is probably not valid.

As you've already worked out, it would be best to deal directly with your watchmaker if you can from this point. Good luck and I hope you get everything back.👍

Cheers, Chris

The jeweler I used first sent the watch off to one person. Several months later, I picked up the watch, only to find the date function wasn't working and the stem was a cheap replacement. I brought back the watch the next day and the jeweler was clear that they'd fix the problem. They then sent it off to another person (an expert). This was in June. A week ago I got a message from the jeweler saying the watch "looked and worked great!". As soon I entered the store to pick it up, he told me that it still wasn't working and initially fought me when I told him that it was a redial (something I noticed right way). At first, he told me that "it was just cleaned up and that that's what is done." Throughout the process, I repeatedly asked for recipients/proof that Omega parts were being used. He always ignored me/refused saying that I should trust him. Now he says that any documentation isn't any of my business.

The only thing he can tell me now that is wrong with the watch is that there is a "ding" inside that is causing the watch not to work. Frankly, I know more about watches than this person.

dan7800 · Oct 12, 2017

ConElPueblo
I can't help but notice that you mention that "the old crown split". You know that this is intentional, right? The crown was probably replaced in order to help with keeping out moisture etc. as the seal would have perished in the old one.

Yea, I can see the crown being replaced. No real issues with that.

ChrisN · Oct 12, 2017

A real tale of woe, unfortunately.

The jeweller sounds hopeless so, let's hope you get everything back and can move on with someone who knows what they're doing. It would surprise me if the date issue can't be fixed (a ding🤦) and the original dial could be reunited at the same time. As you know, make sure any replacement parts will be Omega and I'm sure it can be brought back to life to give another 50 years of service and this will all be forgotten.

@ConElPueblo is saying that he thinks this is a solid case so the movement comesout of the front and this means it's a two piece stem. It should separate into two pieces for movement removal.

Regards, Chris

TropicConnie · Oct 13, 2017

dan7800
I repeatedly asked for recipients/proof that Omega parts were being used.

Much aside the general topic of the thread, but I've always been told by watchmaker that there are virtually no aftermarket parts available for Omega, unlike, say, Rolex where aftermarket parts are abundant.

JimInOz · Oct 13, 2017

TropicConnie
.............unlike, say, Rolex where aftermarket parts are abundant.

Huh?

In what country would Rolex parts be abundant to the man in the street?

Edit: Sorry, just saw that you said "aftermarket" parts, so you actually mean "counterfeit" parts?

Archer · Oct 13, 2017

TropicConnie
Much aside the general topic of the thread, but I've always been told by watchmaker that there are virtually no aftermarket parts available for Omega, unlike, say, Rolex where aftermarket parts are abundant.

Completely false - there are lots of Omega "aftermarket" (i.e. non genuine) parts out there...

TropicConnie · Oct 13, 2017

JimInOz
Huh?

In what country would Rolex parts be abundant to the man in the street?

Edit: Sorry, just saw that you said "aftermarket" parts, so you actually mean "counterfeit" parts?

Archer
Completely false - there are lots of Omega "aftermarket" (i.e. non genuine) parts out there...

I have no reason to disbelieve my own Omega qualified watchmaker. I've seen aftermarket/generic/counterfeit bracelets, buckles, and bezels, but never movement parts, which I'm told need to be ordered from Beil. Perhaps there is some cross-compatibility for non critical movement parts, is that what you're getting at @Archer ?

EDIT: I just checked Cousins, it appears that a handful of aftermarket Omega parts are available. I wouldn't use the term 'lots' though.

Archer · Oct 13, 2017

TropicConnie
I have no reason to disbelieve my own Omega qualified watchmaker. I've seen aftermarket/generic/counterfeit bracelets, buckles, and bezels, but never movement parts, which I'm told need to be ordered from Beil. Perhaps there is some cross-compatibility for non critical movement parts, is that what you're getting at @Archer ?

EDIT: I just checked Cousins, it appears that a handful of aftermarket Omega parts are available. I wouldn't use the term 'lots' though.

Well, you didn't say movement parts specifically in your first post. But yes there are movement parts that are aftermarket available. Even more than that there are crystals, crowns, and all manner of case parts available that are not genuine parts. Cousins is certainly not the only material supplier around, but even aside from the legit suppliers there are lots of very dubious parts out there mate.

BTW being aftermarket doesn't always mean they are bad parts necessarily, although I have heard that the crystals Cousins are marketing specifically for Omega are not the best quality. Aftermarket parts are nothing new, and companies like Bestfit, Marshall, and many others that have "parts systems" have been around for decades supplying aftermarket movement and case parts. Most of these companies have long gone out of business, but their parts are still floating around out there. Besfit is still around and is still supplying parts - I keep both of their manuals beside my keyboard for quick access - not for Omega parts but for other vintage watches I service.

Keep in mind that many Omega parts are discontinued and no longer available. For example if there weren't aftermarket parts available no one would be able to replace the mainspring in their Omega bumper movements - no mainsprings available from Omega for those...

dan7800 · Oct 14, 2017

Picked up the watch today. The jeweler said that the repair person had re-finished the dial, so what he was giving me back was the original dial, but it had been covered with the fake cover. So now I have a broken watch with a junk dial.

Foo2rama · Oct 14, 2017

dan7800
Picked up the watch today. The jeweler said that the repair person had re-finished the dial, so what he was giving me back was the original dial, but it had been covered with the fake cover. So now I have a broken watch with a junk dial.

Find out who did it. No reason to redial that watch. Is he a member of any horological professional group?

mikechi22 · Oct 14, 2017

dan7800
Picked up the watch today. The jeweler said that the repair person had re-finished the dial, so what he was giving me back was the original dial, but it had been covered with the fake cover. So now I have a broken watch with a junk dial.

That just seems so fishy to me. I don’t think the average watchmaker can simply churn out a redial. Whoever was working on your watch must have had to send your dial out to someone else and that service would cost $150 or so. That cost would then need to be passed on to you. You didn’t ask for ithis service so then we must believe that these clowns gave you a $150 gift? My spidey sense says one of these guys stole your original dial and replaced it with something else. You’re sure you got back your original movement and everything else? My dad lost a family heirloom to a dishonest jeweler and I sure wish he’d reported it to the police. Your situation is very reminiscent of that!

Davidt · Oct 14, 2017

Talk about conspiracy theories! The OP stated he paid $450 for the service so far. That's a lot for this (especially since it still hasn't fixed the issue) so the cost of the refinish was covered there. Perhaps the movement has barely been touched at the 'watchmaker' simply gave it s cosmetic overhaul?
Don't forget we're talking about a 70's Cosmic, not a Deluxe or an applied logo Speedmaster. It's highly unlikely someone's swapped out the dial to steal it!

ChrisN · Oct 14, 2017

It sounds like they are just saying anything to get rid of you. I can't see very well from your photos of the watch today but, both the dials you've shown look original to me. Can you take a picture of the watch today, face on? If you only have a phone, put the watch dial up on a table close to some natural light with some books next to it. Rest the phone on the top of the books with the camera lens overhanging so it focuses on the dial face and show us that. I know it's not exactly the same dial but, it may be a legitimate variation.

And it's really unlikely that any watchmaker would steal parts from a customers watch...

Cheers, Chris

Vintage Cosmic Dial

Foo2rama

TropicConnie

dsio

dan7800

dan7800

ChrisN

ConElPueblo

dan7800

dan7800

ChrisN

TropicConnie

JimInOz

Archer

TropicConnie

Archer

dan7800

Foo2rama

mikechi22

Davidt

ChrisN

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