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Vintage Constellation mania

OBSER
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Hi guys,
during the last months I came back to have a focus on vintage constellation watches only.
I sold some of my “modern” omega, so I’m ready to start my next trip

These are two interesting pieces for me:

Constellation Gran Luxe
Ref 14398 sc
Cal 561
18kt solid gold
Asking price 4000€ (physical shop)
Some doubts on crown reference
(I m waiting pics about caliber and internal caseback)

Constellation
Ref 167.005
Cal 551
Stainless steel
Asking price 1000€ (private seller)
Dial have some signs (maybe water?)
Crown aftermarket?

what do u think about their status and value?

many thanks
 
IMG_5690.jpeg IMG_5691.jpeg IMG_5688.jpeg IMG_5689.jpeg IMG_5693.jpeg IMG_5698.jpeg IMG_5697.jpeg IMG_5695.jpeg IMG_5696.jpeg IMG_5694.jpeg
TexOmega
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If it is only between these two, I pick #1 but at a much lower price.



But I would keep looking into other references and best condition types
 
OBSER
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TexOmega TexOmega
If it is only between these two, I pick #1 but at a much lower price.

But I would keep looking into other references and best condition types

Thanks @TexOmega.
Could u please describe your opinion about the value of the first and what do u think about its condition?

I see some similar examples sold in famous auctions at 2500€ 10 years ago

Many thanks
 
TexOmega
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Appears to me the crown shows the wrong color

Appears to me they attempted to manipulate the pix enough to get a sharper case, lugs especially

I'd rather have another cal than a 561 in a watch with an RE
 
aprax
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TexOmega TexOmega
I'd rather have another cal than a 561 in a watch with an RE

Yes, or to put it another way: You would rather have a cal 504 with that dial. But then it could not be a ref 14398, which, btw, I have not yet seen with a snap back. So OP should definitely wait for pics of case back and movement.

As to the second watch: The lugs seem to be heavily polished. Also, I would try for a dial in better condition for that price.
 
OBSER
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aprax aprax
Yes, or to put it another way: You would rather have a cal 504 with that dial. But then it could not be a ref 14398, which, btw, I have not yet seen with a snap back. So OP should definitely wait for pics of case back and movement.

As to the second watch: The lugs seem to be heavily polished. Also, I would try for a dial in better condition for that price.

What SnapBack do u expect with this ref?
I will post the pics asap.

The second watch could be good at 500€ but for sure the lugs seem over polished.

thanks @aprax
 
wagudc
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OBSER BrunoCodispoti
The second watch could be good at 500€ but for sure the lugs seem over polished.

I would not be interested in adding the second watch to my collection at any price. Doglegs really do not look good when over polished, and I am not a fan of the speckled dial. With the prices as they have been lately, I suspect you could probably get most of your money back if you had to sell it later. It's to you what you think of the condition.
 
aprax
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If I am correct 14398s have screw backs (as opposed to snap-on backs like the one of the first watch you posted). Also, in my experience, they usually come with "missing text" dials, i.e. they lack the words "officially certified". The dial of the watch you posted looks like it could belong to a previous generation deluxe model 2954 which would have a cal. 504 (and a snap-on back).
It could also be possible, that the watch you posted is some sort of a transitional version of 14398 using the new generation movements but with the old dial layout.
 
Dan S
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The 167.005 is not in good condition, definitely not the watch for a collector of Constellations.
 
OBSER
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aprax aprax
If I am correct 14398s have screw backs (as opposed to snap-on backs like the one of the first watch you posted). Also, in my experience, they usually come with "missing text" dials, i.e. they lack the words "officially certified". The dial of the watch you posted looks like it could belong to a previous generation deluxe model 2954 which would have a cal. 504 (and a snap-on back).
It could also be possible, that the watch you posted is some sort of a transitional version of 14398 using the new generation movements but with the old dial layout.

now I understand better, my English is not so good
In my research I found some 14398 with “official certified” on dial but no with snap-on backs.
I hope to update the thread asap with the new pics.
Have a nice weekend and thanks for your time.
 
gatorcpa
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Top watch is more likely a Ref. 2988:

https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/watch-omega-constellation-calendar-grand-luxe-ot-2988

Cal. 504? Check. 18K gold with gold dial?, Check. Press-in case back? Check.

These sometimes came with gold bracelets, like this example:

upload_2024-6-22_19-27-25.png


https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auc...ga-constellation-retailed-by-meister-a-yellow

You need to be careful that the sharp edges on the lugs are not heavily polished. I can’t tell the condition from the pictures provided, but you can see the edges clearly on the Sotheby’s example.

If it all checks out OK, I don’t think the price is ridiculous, but if you can get it down a few hundred euros, it would be a better value.

Good luck,
gatorcpa
 
OBSER
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Hi guys,
the “professional” seller said me that open the caseback is too difficult and without a real offer I can’t have infos About reference and caliber 😵‍💫
I don’t understand how customers could have interest and buy an expensive watch without know and see these infos.
Tomorrow I will switch my communication from text to voice.
In this moment I believe that he find the reference num from a similar watch on website and add it on sale so maybe the watch could be an older model.
I will update the post
 
gatorcpa
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OBSER BrunoCodispoti
I don’t understand how customers could have interest and buy an expensive watch without know and see these infos.
Because such sellers only want to do business with those that ask no questions.
OBSER BrunoCodispoti
In this moment I believe that he find the reference num from a similar watch on website and add it on sale so maybe the watch could be an older model.
Maybe he found the reference number on my post above? 🙄 I can tell you that he has not updated the listing at this time.
gatorcpa
 
kfranzk
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OBSER BrunoCodispoti
I don’t understand how customers could have interest and buy an expensive watch without know and see these infos.
Its not so bad, when the seller does not really know, what he has, if only you know, what it is, yes with a risc. You sometimes may get a bargain!
This is obviously a ref 2988 with cal 504 and in my view more attractive than the later 14.398 or even 168.002 with cal 561.
It would have been in my collection, if it would not miss the 18k bracelet. With a little discount the price is not too bad, when you prefer a leather bracelet.
And about sharp edges, how could I aspect them at a watch 60 years old? Gold is forever, worn or not.
The pristine watch from Sothebys may have achieved a much much higher price, than we see in 'normal' offerings (or the sale is long, long ago).
Look at mine at my wrist, doesn't it look great regardles of worn edges?
Konrad

Omega 2988 GG Hand b 1.jpg
Edited:
 
cristos71
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aprax aprax
If I am correct 14398s have screw backs (as opposed to snap-on backs like the one of the first watch you posted). Also, in my experience, they usually come with "missing text" dials, i.e. they lack the words "officially certified". The dial of the watch you posted looks like it could belong to a previous generation deluxe model 2954 which would have a cal. 504 (and a snap-on back).
It could also be possible, that the watch you posted is some sort of a transitional version of 14398 using the new generation movements but with the old dial layout.
2954's have both 're' and 'er' spelling of chronometer. So before they stopped with the 504 and moved over to the 561 the spelling had already changed. I've never seen a 561 with 're' spelling
 
Pixitfecit
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wagudc wagudc
I would not be interested in adding the second watch to my collection at any price. Doglegs really do not look good when over polished, and I am not a fan of the speckled dial. With the prices as they have been lately, I suspect you could probably get most of your money back if you had to sell it later. It's to you what you think of the condition.
That Ref 167.005 once was mine, bcs. of the lugs and dial i sold it quite cheap. 1000€ ist too much...
 
L
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19
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2
OBSER BrunoCodispoti
Hi guys,
during the last months I came back to have a focus on vintage constellation watches only.
I sold some of my “modern” omega, so I’m ready to start my next trip

These are two interesting pieces for me:

Constellation Gran Luxe
Ref 14398 sc
Cal 561
18kt solid gold
Asking price 4000€ (physical shop)
Some doubts on crown reference
(I m waiting pics about caliber and internal caseback)

Constellation
Ref 167.005
Cal 551
Stainless steel
Asking price 1000€ (private seller)
Dial have some signs (maybe water?)
Crown aftermarket?

what do u think about their status and value?

many thanks
I see your constellations have both variations of "Chronometer" and "Chronometre" - any idea why the differing spelling?
 
Peemacgee
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L LMJ
I see your constellations have both variations of "Chronometer" and "Chronometre" - any idea why the differing spelling?

The simple answer is ‘timing’.

Omega initially spelled the word the French way but towards the end of the 50s changed the spelling to the English way.

Confusion sometimes arises during the transition period where both French and English versions are used within the same reference or similar aged references .
 
L
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Peemacgee Peemacgee
The simple answer is ‘timing’.

Omega initially spelled the word the French way but towards the end of the 50s changed the spelling to the English way.

Confusion sometimes arises during the transition period where both French and English versions are used within the same reference or similar aged references .
Thanks. My Dad's Omega is 1958 and spelled the French way. He was born and bred in France and I wondered if he'd bought the watch on a visit back to France or on one of his trips to West Africa.
 
Peemacgee
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L LMJ
Thanks. My Dad's Omega is 1958 and spelled the French way. He was born and bred in France and I wondered if he'd bought the watch on a visit back to France or on one of his trips to West Africa.
He may well have done but ‘58 is roughly the spelling transition point and dating Omegas from serial numbers is not an exact science.

Even if you know for sure that the watch was bought in 58 it could have been manufactured up to a couple of years earlier.

The issue comes when certain watches have the French spelling when they are clearly past the transition time or clearly pre the transition time - that’s when you know they are redials
However, whilst It would be nice and easy if there was a definitive cut off -for both date and reference- there are a small number of references that could have both spellings and be correct.
 
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