US import duty

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I responded to them (now I'm probably on another list...):

Nothing in this reply indicates you even read my comments.

I am not "an importer". I am a US citizen, who owned a watch and sent it abroad for service. CBP assessed a tax on the item as it (which I already own and paid taxes on) was returned to me.

If your obfuscated answer is "Shut up and continue to pay taxes for things you already paid taxes for." please say so.

This has been a worthless exchange, but it went exactly as I expected it to given the way the government works these days.
Based on your comments so far, it seems like you are mainly just interested in complaining about the US government. However, if you are serious about getting an answer, or perhaps a refund, I'd suggest going in person to a CBP office and talking with an officer. When I was researching this issue, I learned that the forms that I needed to file in advance (to register the watch as my property) needed to be done in person.

Again, I do think it's possible to avoid the duties you are describing (and only pay duty on the increase in value), but there is an official form that needs to be filed in advance, and included with the imported item. Sometimes CBP is willing to overlook the absence of the form, but no guarantee, and they can easily just fall back on saying that you didn't include the form. So it's in your interest to be polite and courteous.
Edited:
 
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Ok to both of you, thank you. However, you both (non-professional CBP folks) just gave me more useful information in the few minutes since I posted, then CBP did. How come they can't simply reply like you just did?

If you think I'm "mainly complaining about the government", it may seem that way, but it isn't. My original enquiry to them was plain spoken and simple. The garbage they sent back is very typical of government behavior. It does piss me off.

As for the service value, no. It wasn't $1500+. My read of the paperwork is someone assessed those values to the watch itself. While I might think the values are lower than reality, they aren't by much. the service was 650.

The big take away is if I want to do this again, I have to go in person to the CBP office and fill out paperwork. In this day and age, that doesn't just seem unreasonable, it is unreasonable. Secure transactions are obviously done all the time. If they were interested, they would make such services available to the public, like almost every other transactional business does.
 
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As for the service value, no. It wasn't $1500+. My read of the paperwork is someone assessed those values to the watch itself. While I might think the values are lower than reality, they aren't by much. the service was 650.

If the cost of service was $650 US, then you shouldn't owe anything. The US di minimis value is $800, so anything under that should be no charge, other than the costs of whoever clears the shipment for you.

If the paperwork is filled out properly by the entity shipping the watch back (in this case Omega), the item value breakdown, and the value added breakdown (cost of service) should all be detailed out for US customs. I do this regularly for US customers.
 
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I looked up CBP Form 7501 and there is a link to the form plus detailed instructions on filling it out. From my read, it is filled out by Fedex. Where they get the values (which is something they enter on the form) is obviously Omega. My suspicion is Omega answers questions on value without considering they are being entered on the form, in a section that will result in dues (if the threshold is met). For their part, I'm sure designating the watch as being returned after repair seems like all they should need to say (particularly since the section where the values are entered has the designation "After Repair").

I'm sure I'm not the first person to run into this. The system in use is so convoluted, you can't get straight answers to simple questions and simple statements (like "after repair") go ignored. If they wanted to fix it, they could. All it would take is someone interested in solving a problem (in the organization). Since I already paid the invoice, my interaction with them will cease, which I'm sure is their preferred outcome all the way around.
 
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How come they can't simply reply like you just did?
You really don’t understand how government works do you?

CBP probably gets hundreds of emails like your every day from well-meaning people who want to comply with incredibly complex rules and regulations, but simply can’t understand them.

Guess what, the people answering those emails (who might not even be CBP employees), don’t understand them either! So have have generic canned answers that they hope will work for you. Many US government agencies (I’m talking about you, IRS) are still using old IBM mainframe computers from the 1960’s. Very antiquated tech.

The fact remains that many people on this forum understand the rules of Sec. 91 of the Harmonized (if that is harmony, I’d like to know how they define dissonance), Tariff Schedule better than 95% of the Customs agents currently employed by CBP.

I like to say, have no expectations. That way, you can never be disappointed.
gatorcpa
 
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Well, I've worked for the government (12 years in engineering) and with the government (30+ years of dealing with government agencies from state DOTs, FWHA, DOD, FAA and some others). When someone has a question or concern, we do all we can to resolve it. For the most part, those we work directly with also do, although it seems more bureaucratic than necessary many times.

The answer I got from CBP was nothing more than a regurgitation of the FAQ page. I would respect them more if they simply said "Eff off", because that is my interpretation. If they have untrained people answering legitimate requests, shame on them for even further wasting taxpayer money.

Anyhow, I'm already past it. I'm just letting you know how I tick.
 
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My suspicion is Omega answers questions on value without considering they are being entered on the form, in a section that will result in dues (if the threshold is met). For their part, I'm sure designating the watch as being returned after repair seems like all they should need to say (particularly since the section where the values are entered has the designation "After Repair").

Well, all I can say is, I ship via FedEx back to the US all the time, and I fill out the paperwork that FedEx uses to clear the shipment with customs, and they go through without a problem. My feeling is that Omega dropped the ball here, and FedEx and CBP are just using the information they were given.
 
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Well, all I can say is, I ship via FedEx back to the US all the time, and I fill out the paperwork that FedEx uses to clear the shipment with customs, and they go through without a problem. My feeling is that Omega dropped the ball here, and FedEx and CBP are just using the information they were given.

Two things: You continue to provide useful, and seemingly easy bits of information CBP could have provided as well, but they didn't. They didn't even try.

Secondly, the form indicates "After Repair". Once that is pointed out, a reasonable expectation would be for someone to check into it.

Believe it or not, I once had a college professor from a Maritime Academy tell me: I know I made a mistake on your final grade; but my policy is once I submit final grades, I never change it. He went on to ask me why I didn't check with him at his desk after class, like all the other students did (to find out what my final grade would be)? Like it is my responsibility to make sure he got it right...

This scenario feels a lot like that.
 
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Two things: You continue to provide useful, and seemingly easy bits of information CBP could have provided as well, but they didn't. They didn't even try.

Secondly, the form indicates "After Repair". Once that is pointed out, a reasonable expectation would be for someone to check into it.

It's the responsibility of the importer and the shipper to make the proper declarations. I know, it doesn't seem fair, and people love to rant about the government, but it's really not their responsibility to check "your" work for you. Could they have been more helpful after the fact? Sure.

You always have the option of using an independent customs broker who will better understand how to bring the shipment in properly, and possibly ask you or the shipper the right questions so the item is properly declared, but it will likely cost you more to pay them for that service than you would have paid here.

In the end, you shouldn't owe anything here, and if you want to get the money back there should be a way.
 
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Here is the page I described previously. I've pasted the contents below.
https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article1648?language=en_US#:~:text=Articles exported from and returned,with this category of goods.

I agree with you that it is unreasonable. According to this document, you must fill out form 4455 and bring the item in person to the CBP so that they can inspect it before you send it for repair. Then the person returning the item to you must include a copy of that signed form, along with various other specific information about the improvements made to the item. Obviously, it's very unlikely that many people will go through this whole process, and even if you did get Form 4455 signed in-person in advance, there's no guarantee that the people shipping the item back for you would do everything correctly. That's why I've never bothered to do it, it's just too hard and not worth it.

As Al mentioned, sometimes CBP will waive these requirements if the item is returned and marked as for repair only. CBP makes a lot of discretionary decisions. However, the process below is what you are officially supposed to do.

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Duty on goods purchased overseas being exported for repair, alteration, etc.
Repairs or alterations means restoration, addition, renovation, re-dyeing, cleaning, re-sterilizing, or other treatment which does not destroy the essential characteristics of, or create a new or commercially different good from, the good exported from the United States.

When exporting goods purchased overseas for repair, alteration, processing, replacement, exchange, upgrade, or for use abroad, it is recommended that the exporter fill out a CBP Form 4455 Certificate of Registration and include a copy with the shipment. Prior to shipping the goods the exporter must bring the items and the form to a Customs and Border Protection (CBP) location and have an Officer physically inspect the goods being exported and sign off on the certificate.

When sending goods overseas, the exporter should send the overseas supplier a copy of the CBP Form 4455 in the package and have them return it with the goods when sending them back to the United States. This will let the foreign country customs and CBP know the purpose of the import into either of their countries. The form should be in the package and easily accessible, so when the item is returned to the United States and examined by CBP it will be clear to the CBP Officer that the goods were previously in the United States.

Also, ask the overseas supplier to include in the return shipment an invoice with any cost incurred for repairs, alterations, processing or differences in the cost for the replacement, exchange, or upgrade if any. The cost of repairs, alterations and processing may be dutiable, depending on the commodity and origin of the goods.

If repairs were made under warranty, please have the overseas supplier indicate it on the invoice. If the goods were replaced, exchanged or upgraded and the value of the goods is more than the original purchase, have them indicate on the invoice the price paid for the new item and the difference between the cost of the new and original purchase. Duty may be required if the difference is a substantial amount.

Goods that are being returned to the United States after being used abroad, such as for exhibit, tools of trade, etc. are not subject to duty as long as the condition of the goods did not improve and the value did not advance.

Articles exported from and returned to the United States after having been advanced in value or improved in condition by repairs or alterations may qualify for duty exemption under the Harmonized Tariff Schedule (HTSUS). See 19 CFR .

An ATA Carnet might be another option for traveling with this category of goods. Chapter 98 of the Harmonized Tariff Schedule contains the rules that cover these importations.
 
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According to this document, you must fill out form 4455 and bring the item in person to the CBP so that they can inspect it before you send it for repair.

I can tell you that none of my US customers have ever done this. As long as I fill out the paperwork correctly when sending it back (3 different forms including the watch work sheet) it's all good. Not sure if the rules applies to "overseas" shipments would be different than for shipping to and from Canada, but I doubt it.

The cost of repairs, alterations and processing may be dutiable, depending on the commodity and origin of the goods.

This is the key part, and given that the US has an $800 di minimis value, this example should have no charges if Omega had filled out the paperwork properly.
 
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I can tell you that none of my US customers have ever done this. As long as I fill out the paperwork correctly when sending it back (3 different forms including the watch work sheet) it's all good. Not sure if the rules applies to "overseas" shipments would be different than for shipping to and from Canada, but I doubt it.
I agree with you and I understand this is your experience. I am just posting this because it is the official policy of the US government.
 
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It's a little amusing. Before I contacted CBP (after my minor fee was levied), I actually ran into that page during my search for information. I read the title and quickly decided it didn't apply based on the phrase: "Duty on goods purchased overseas being exported for repair, alteration, etc. I concluded based on the underlined portion; it didn't apply to me.

Anyhow, in the final analysis, effective communication goes a long way. Historically, when I sent goods out of the country for service, I prominently marked the package with "Returned for Service" in many areas. That always worked on the way out. Coming back, the service provider (and it has only been Al or Omega for watches), took care of making the correct notifications such that duty has never been charged. None of my transactions ever included a Customs form for the return trip.

I had only one previous encounter with Omega and it went flawlessly (as did all my dealings with Al).

On both my dealings with Omega, no specific Customs form was sent. The first one went well and the second didn't. Was it because of the lack of a proper Customs form, or something Omega did wrong or didn't do; or was it just chance that my first encounter didn't play out the same way? I'll never know.

Suffice to say, now I know what the rules are; no thanks to CBP.

Thank you for taking the time to share this information with me.
 
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It's a little amusing. Before I contacted CBP (after my minor fee was levied), I actually ran into that page during my search for information. I read the title and quickly decided it didn't apply based on the phrase: "Duty on goods purchased overseas being exported for repair, alteration, etc. I concluded based on the underlined portion; it didn't apply to me.
Your watch is from Switzerland originally.
 
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Matters not the nation, our minders are expensive to maintain in office.
 
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Your watch is from Switzerland originally.
I did say it was confusing.