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Universal Geneve Watches On Ebay

  1. SpikiSpikester

    SpikiSpikester @ ΩF Staff Member Mar 24, 2013

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    What specifically about the dial or movement indicates it is a redial/franken ?
     
  2. woodwkr2

    woodwkr2 Mar 24, 2013

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    These pictures are tough. But as a general principle anything coming from Buenos Aires or Lima should be presumed guilty until proven innocent.

    I don't like the "Swiss Made" at the bottom of the dial. Usually Universal simply had "Swiss" at 6 O'Clock. It is also situated too high up and is typically inferior to the scales.

    The subdial hands are correct, but the hour and minute hand don't strike me something that I've seen from Universal. The sweep seconds hand looks like it was coated in red paint.

    Interestingly, the subdials look good, and have their texture. So they may have been masked off while the rest of the dial was stripped and painted black.

    I don't like that the movement looks like a POS and the dial, hands, and case are so clean. I don't like that the movement is missing casing screws and doesn't appear to 'seat' properly in the case as I'm used to seeing.

    The crown is a sure replacement, but that's okay.

    I don't like the chrono pushers. They may be alright, but typically the rounded pushers like this were on early model chronos. Based on the logo on the inside caseback, I would have expected flat pushes.

    I don't like the style of the lugs. They may be alright, and would require some research to confirm. But I'm not going to dig because in my mind this is already disqualified.
     
  3. woodwkr2

    woodwkr2 Mar 24, 2013

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    Things coming out of Southern Florida and Miami, in particular, unless sold by a reputable dealer or from a confirmed estate sale, should also (in my mind) be considered guilty until confirmed innocent.
     
  4. SpikiSpikester

    SpikiSpikester @ ΩF Staff Member Mar 24, 2013

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    Just going off topic for a minute...

    It's a matter of personal opinion, but I have to say I disagree in principle with adopting generalised positions about whole communities, countries or populations - whatever the topic.

    As far as watches go, it seems to me that a good way to lose good deals (or to do bad deals) is to have done insufficient research - regardless of where the seller is. There are plenty of examples on the forum of great or unusual pieces picked up from some of the places you refer to.

    I don't trust a seller from London any more than one from Minnesota, Mexico or Argentina.
     
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  5. woodwkr2

    woodwkr2 Mar 24, 2013

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    I agree with everything you just said. But as a matter of practicality, there's no denying statistical probability. If there are greater odds of finding frankens in Ukraine, Buenos Aires, etc., I have a lower threshold for hitting the reject button and moving on. Sure I might miss a bargain here and there, but as part of an initial screening process, if you will, I think certain prejudices and stereotypes when used appropriately, are beneficial.

    To give you an anecdote about my position:

    I've also lived in Buenos Aires, and am quite familiar with the petty crime and "trucas" or tricks that go on there as a very regular part of daily life--things that most New Yorkers or Londoners would be horrified to think about.

    Speaking again from experience, I know that there's also a higher probability that legitimate watches coming from Buenos Aires are likely stolen. A member of my family was the victim of an unsuccessful mugging by two guys on motorcycle. The family came to visit while I was living there and very much looked the part of clueless American tourist. We'd been in a very nice area of town at a restaurant, seated up against the glass windows. My brother, who's a big guy, was wearing a Rolex. On exiting the restaurant the two guys on the motorcycle whizzed by (they'd obviously been staking us out), one jumped off, grabbing my brother and wrestling for his wrist. We reacted quickly, and probably got quite lucky. In no time the motorcycle had made the block and come back to pick up his buddy and he was gone. We found the Rolex lying in the ditch, where he'd used such force that he'd succeeded in breaking the metal bracelet (not from the spring bar, but from the middle of the links).

    This sort of thing is an everyday occurrence around BsAs. So you have the antique dealers assembling frankens, the petty thieves that live around the outskirts of the city and prey on tourists, and the high end, legitimate dealers who will have nothing to do with a hot watch. Argentines will do anything for dollars (as opposed to their chronically devaluing peso). So where do you think those watches go? They're sold to other dumb tourists, and they're put up on eBay.
     
  6. MMMD

    MMMD unaffiliated curmudgeonly absurdist & polyologist Mar 24, 2013

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    I think the phrase "recently professionally restored" in the description of the dial says more than our biases, and something about the integrity of the seller. Very important for us connoisseurs to read the fine print. ;)
     
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  7. woodwkr2

    woodwkr2 Mar 24, 2013

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    Funny. I never even read the description. That's some kind of restoration job alright.
     
  8. cicindela

    cicindela Steve @ ΩF Staff Member Mar 24, 2013

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  9. LouS

    LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Mar 24, 2013

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    You have spoken Truth here. Wherever there is money to be made there will be shenanigans.

    :p
     
  10. dsio

    dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Mar 24, 2013

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  11. LouS

    LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Mar 24, 2013

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  12. ulackfocus

    ulackfocus Mar 24, 2013

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    I have to agree - somewhat - with woodwrkr2 here. While it's no guarantee you'll get a redialed franken every time from the Ukraine, South America, or Vietnam, the odds are MUCH greater than a watch coming from other areas. As SpikiSpikester points out, just because a watch comes from a "normal" country doesn't mean it will always be kosher either. Do your homework on any watch from any location, but use some extra caveat emptors for certain corners of the globe.
     
  13. MMMD

    MMMD unaffiliated curmudgeonly absurdist & polyologist Mar 24, 2013

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    Me too. Again, there is often valuable information hidden in the seller's description. Sometimes twice:

    "Movement is property signed same as case and dial (propably refinished)"

    and

    "Dial is propably repainted in white color and black arabic numbers ."

    I know he says "propably" but if he says it twice, I'm going to read it as "apsolutely".
     
  14. dsio

    dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Mar 25, 2013

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  15. dsio

    dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Mar 25, 2013

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  16. LouS

    LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Mar 25, 2013

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    Nice finds, the both of them. The Polerouter is from Matthew Bain - I've had pretty decent interactions with him in the past.
     
  17. dsio

    dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Mar 25, 2013

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  18. woodwkr2

    woodwkr2 Mar 26, 2013

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    It would have been a bit nicer if he'd found a properly sized croc strap instead of destroying that one to make it fit. Could have at least clipped the ends.
     
  19. woodwkr2

    woodwkr2 Mar 26, 2013

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    Well I take it back, it has a Spiedel buckle. No great loss.
     
  20. LouS

    LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Mar 27, 2013

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