Universal Geneve Watches On Ebay

These pictures are tough. But as a general principle anything coming from Buenos Aires or Lima should be presumed guilty until proven innocent.

I don't like the "Swiss Made" at the bottom of the dial. Usually Universal simply had "Swiss" at 6 O'Clock. It is also situated too high up and is typically inferior to the scales.

The subdial hands are correct, but the hour and minute hand don't strike me something that I've seen from Universal. The sweep seconds hand looks like it was coated in red paint.

Interestingly, the subdials look good, and have their texture. So they may have been masked off while the rest of the dial was stripped and painted black.

I don't like that the movement looks like a POS and the dial, hands, and case are so clean. I don't like that the movement is missing casing screws and doesn't appear to 'seat' properly in the case as I'm used to seeing.

The crown is a sure replacement, but that's okay.

I don't like the chrono pushers. They may be alright, but typically the rounded pushers like this were on early model chronos. Based on the logo on the inside caseback, I would have expected flat pushes.

I don't like the style of the lugs. They may be alright, and would require some research to confirm. But I'm not going to dig because in my mind this is already disqualified.

Things coming out of Southern Florida and Miami, in particular, unless sold by a reputable dealer or from a confirmed estate sale, should also (in my mind) be considered guilty until confirmed innocent.

I agree with everything you just said. But as a matter of practicality, there's no denying statistical probability. If there are greater odds of finding frankens in Ukraine, Buenos Aires, etc., I have a lower threshold for hitting the reject button and moving on. Sure I might miss a bargain here and there, but as part of an initial screening process, if you will, I think certain prejudices and stereotypes when used appropriately, are beneficial.

To give you an anecdote about my position:

I've also lived in Buenos Aires, and am quite familiar with the petty crime and "trucas" or tricks that go on there as a very regular part of daily life--things that most New Yorkers or Londoners would be horrified to think about.

Speaking again from experience, I know that there's also a higher probability that legitimate watches coming from Buenos Aires are likely stolen. A member of my family was the victim of an unsuccessful mugging by two guys on motorcycle. The family came to visit while I was living there and very much looked the part of clueless American tourist. We'd been in a very nice area of town at a restaurant, seated up against the glass windows. My brother, who's a big guy, was wearing a Rolex. On exiting the restaurant the two guys on the motorcycle whizzed by (they'd obviously been staking us out), one jumped off, grabbing my brother and wrestling for his wrist. We reacted quickly, and probably got quite lucky. In no time the motorcycle had made the block and come back to pick up his buddy and he was gone. We found the Rolex lying in the ditch, where he'd used such force that he'd succeeded in breaking the metal bracelet (not from the spring bar, but from the middle of the links).

This sort of thing is an everyday occurrence around BsAs. So you have the antique dealers assembling frankens, the petty thieves that live around the outskirts of the city and prey on tourists, and the high end, legitimate dealers who will have nothing to do with a hot watch. Argentines will do anything for dollars (as opposed to their chronically devaluing peso). So where do you think those watches go? They're sold to other dumb tourists, and they're put up on eBay.

I think the phrase "recently professionally restored" in the description of the dial says more than our biases, and something about the integrity of the seller. Very important for us connoisseurs to read the fine print. 😉

Funny. I never even read the description. That's some kind of restoration job alright.

I have to agree - somewhat - with woodwrkr2 here. While it's no guarantee you'll get a redialed franken every time from the Ukraine, South America, or Vietnam, the odds are MUCH greater than a watch coming from other areas. As SpikiSpikester points out, just because a watch comes from a "normal" country doesn't mean it will always be kosher either. Do your homework on any watch from any location, but use some extra caveat emptors for certain corners of the globe.

Me too. Again, there is often valuable information hidden in the seller's description. Sometimes twice:

"Movement is property signed same as case and dial (propably refinished)"

and

"Dial is propably repainted in white color and black arabic numbers ."

I know he says "propably" but if he says it twice, I'm going to read it as "apsolutely".

It would have been a bit nicer if he'd found a properly sized croc strap instead of destroying that one to make it fit. Could have at least clipped the ends.

Well I take it back, it has a Spiedel buckle. No great loss.