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Universal Geneve Tri Compax 481 "french cased" - who can help ?

jb1986
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Dear friends,
I've just bought this 18k gold UG and I wanted to know if I could find the date of manufacture by reading the ref. number.
I've put some photos, please send me your opinion about it !
I'm also surprised by the shape of the case (especially the horns, I can't find the same in the dozen of photos we can see on the internet)...
Many thanks,
JB (from France)
DSCN2187 - Edited (1).jpg DSCN2188 - Edited.jpg DSCN2190 - Edited.jpg DSCN2193 - Edited.jpg IMG_20180312_143016.jpg IMG_20180312_143050.jpg
 
gop76
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You can find some information here:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/universal-genève-information.66405/

The serial and ref doesn't look right (the serial seems too high for that kind of dial and ref should have 5 digits).

The case doesn't look original (not stamped with logo inside the caseback and i can't see the swiss hallmarks - maybe cased in France? Is there an hallmark with an eagle head?)
 
10H10
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This is definitively not an UG caseback, the case itself might be original, UG made this case style. If a shop sold it to you, I suggest that you get a refund. 🙁
 
Larry S
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Dial is from the 40's. SN is from mid 50's ... Service Moon Disk. While not unusual to have SN and Ref stamped inside ... none of the typical UG stamps are there and the Ref number even with the variation code does not look typical. Not a bad looker but its a composite watch. Did you get this from a dealer in Italy?
 
Mlafra
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I have a theory for this watch.
Case original and from the 1940s (UG is well known to produce that style of case in 1940s).
Caseback is a service case back from the mid/end 1950s, that could explain the lack of the usual engravings and the 6 digits reference number.
I also believe that the dial might be service, but original UG and printed with the original cliches: I am saying this because the dial looks original but what's strange is the lack of the black circle around the date subdial at 12 o'clock.
Also crown is a later replacement as until the 50s they weren't signed.
Not bad overall but it has his issues.
 
gop76
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Mlafra Mlafra
I have a theory for this watch.
Case original and from the 1940s (UG is well known to produce that style of case in 1940s).
Caseback is a service case back from the mid/end 1950s, that could explain the lack of the usual engravings and the 6 digits reference number.
I also believe that the dial might be service, but original UG and printed with the original cliches: I am saying this because the dial looks original but what's strange is the lack of the black circle around the date subdial at 12 o'clock.
Also crown is a later replacement as until the 50s they weren't signed.
Not bad overall but it has his issues.

But the case shouldn't have the swiss hallmarks?
 
Larry S
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Mlafra Mlafra
I have a theory for this watch.
Case original and from the 1940s (UG is well known to produce that style of case in 1940s).
Caseback is a service case back from the mid/end 1950s, that could explain the lack of the usual engravings and the 6 digits reference number.
I also believe that the dial might be service, but original UG and printed with the original cliches: I am saying this because the dial looks original but what's strange is the lack of the black circle around the date subdial at 12 o'clock.
Also crown is a later replacement as until the 50s they weren't signed.
Not bad overall but it has his issues.
I like this theory. . Now I own a Tri from the 40's with military inscription on the back, Sword Hands, a Service Moon and a Service Dial. I am the third OF member to own this watch. I got it from C&C after it was featured on Worn and Wound and I looked up its OF provenance. Do I love it any less? ? Hell no! This is a defunct manufacturer. Parts are being hoarded, they lived long and active lives. An original watch is a rare and super expensive bird. I have a few but I also have some with service parts.Are we being too hard on watches like this if she was serviced with UG parts over the course of her life?
Edited:
 
gatorcpa
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A little fuzzy and out of focus, but it does look like a French eagle head hallmark on the back.

DB69EDD8-ADC9-4858-807B-447CC522D542.jpeg


Is the serial number (mid 1950’s) in sync with anything else known about the watch. Did it come from France or one of its colonies?

It would be difficult to fake an entire case for a specially watch like that and quite expensive to custom make a case back to fit as well. Has it been tested for gold content?

I don’t know enough about this model to comment on the movement or dial.

Hope this helps,
gatorcpa
 
10H10
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The caseback diameter is common, swapping a caseback with one from another watch is easy imo. There should be the ug logo, whatever the market...
 
MarktheTime
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Mlafra Mlafra
I have a theory for this watch.
Case original and from the 1940s (UG is well known to produce that style of case in 1940s).
Caseback is a service case back from the mid/end 1950s, that could explain the lack of the usual engravings and the 6 digits reference number.
I also believe that the dial might be service, but original UG and printed with the original cliches: I am saying this because the dial looks original but what's strange is the lack of the black circle around the date subdial at 12 o'clock.
Also crown is a later replacement as until the 50s they weren't signed.
Not bad overall but it has his issues.
I’m definitely NOT an expert but for what it’s worth here’s my dial from 1949/50 based on serial number, with no ring around the date dial...
 
88A9E008-4DC7-44FF-821F-0E2ECDE88853.jpeg
Mlafra
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As I said mine is just a theory.
The moonphase disk is also a 1950s one, without the face on the moon.
The 31 is also not in red but in black. They are both things that point to later dials, potentially (I stress potentially) service dials, still original UG
 
MarktheTime
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Mlafra Mlafra
As I said mine is just a theory.
The moonphase disk is also a 1950s one, without the face on the moon.
The 31 is also not in red but in black. They are both things that point to later dials, potentially (I stress potentially) service dials, still original UG
Again, you could be correct, but I've seen several recent examples of dials that I suspect the "community" would think to be original without the ring, or the red 31 - albeit both are admittedly rare. And although it's tough to see in the photo above, mine (Ref 12268) does have "Swiss" at the bottom, if that's any further indication that it's (hopefully) an original dial...
Like I said, I'm not an expert, but it's certainly interesting and educational to compare notes - and pics - with everyone here!
 
Larry S
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Yea I love these debates! @JB 1986 ... I know its tough watching this dissection she's still nice watch.
 
10H10
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Universal really managed to make us wonder ! But, maybe it is somewhere why we like the brand !? 😉
 
MarktheTime
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Here's the "Swiss" at the bottom of my dial (sorry for the poor photo, taken by the seller when I first acquired it).
 
IMG_1533.jpg
jb1986
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10H10 10H10
This is definitively not an UG caseback, the case itself might be original, UG made this case style. If a shop sold it to you, I suggest that you get a refund. 🙁
I bought it from a friend, he owned it from his father (whom wasn't the kind of people who would buy a fake UG). Definitely, this caseback is not genuine, I wonder why it has been changed.
 
jb1986
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Larry S Larry S
Dial is from the 40's. SN is from mid 50's ... Service Moon Disk. While not unusual to have SN and Ref stamped inside ... none of the typical UG stamps are there and the Ref number even with the variation code does not look typical. Not a bad looker but its a composite watch. Did you get this from a dealer in Italy?
I got it from a friend, who owned it by his father.
 
jb1986
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gop76 gop76
But the case shouldn't have the swiss hallmarks?
There is three french hallmarks for 18k gold : on the back of the caseback, on a horn, and on the case itself.
 
jb1986
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gop76 gop76
But the case shouldn't have the swiss hallmarks?
No swiss hallmarks but three french one (eagle head > 18k)
 
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