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Universal Geneve “Prototype” Compax
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DirtyDozen12
·😲
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MattF
·Not my discovery. This was suggested in the comments section of a Hodinkee article. I just wanted to provide an illustration to quell any doubts.
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Rman
·Not my discovery. This was suggested in the comments section of a Hodinkee article. I just wanted to provide an illustration to quell any doubts.
The vintage watch world need some sort of international tribunal.
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cristos71
·This is why it is so important to build up knowledge and stick with what you know.
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mentawatches
·Just an FYI: I sent the buyer this thread yesterday, he is aware of the situation, and he obviously is free to return the watch. I do not want anyone to purchase a watch from me and not be 100% satisfied.
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jordn
·I am going to reach out to Universal to see if I can get an extract for the watch, and will keep you all posted.
The watch in question and the dial found on chrono24 are one and the same obviously, and it would, at the very least, make this particular watch a franken. Kudos to the people who found the dial. I'd still like to own one to wear, but not at that price. Incorrect rare dial + rare case = 50k is like saying 1 + 1 = eggplant, and the seller is of course doing right by the buyer to offer a refund.
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jordn
·There are a lot of legit and fantastic watches one could acquire for what this sold for. Numbers don't add up. Seems to me that this is a slippery slope. We've had some fun with this but to me this watch is a sign that the UG market is beyond frothy, that the good watches are so scarce that "Prototypes" are now acceptable.
What am I missing?
Especially in the last few years, almost all clean-looking UG chronographs I've seen for sale are consolidated examples (case/dial/hands from different sources). I enjoy finding unmolested, all-original watches, but there's nothing wrong with people who don't mind incorrect parts, redials, refinished case, etc. as long they are aware of those things before purchasing. It only becomes problematic when these mods are done to viciously gouge potential buyers. I've heard from multiple sources that there are people buying up rare parts, so it's not a good time for UG collecting - each watch needs careful and thoughtful examination. Even the other Spillmann example mentioned in the Hodinkee article has a period incorrect dial (40's case/50's dial). This is nothing new. This has been happening in vintage Rolexes for many, many years.
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Diabolik
·From what I have seen (and without prejudice), hodinkee has a lot to learn ...
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MattF
·In this particular example, I find the explanation/backstory from the dealer to be quite convoluted (sounds like a strange arms deal) and riddled with lots of cya (must be a lawyer by training). I would think when dealing in such "rare" pieces with high price points the diligence would have been much more in depth i.e. the careful and thoughtful examination that's been alluded too as well as full vetting of the origin and source of the watch. In addition, I hope that the buyer has been made aware of all the new developments as well as the other items the dealer has mentioned in this thread because the original listing for the watch makes no mention of being serviced, a pusher having been replaced, the other marks or issues with the dial, etc etc. As @jordn says this is a full blown franken and certainly not worth anything close to the price paid especially given the other replaced parts, etc.
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Larry S
··Color Commentator for the Hyperbole.I actually think the article gently pointed to the problem. We all know what went down here.
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Larry S
··Color Commentator for the Hyperbole.Just restating the obvious.
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Larry S
··Color Commentator for the Hyperbole.Fair point. Moving on.
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mentawatches
·In this particular example, I find the explanation/backstory from the dealer to be quite convoluted (sounds like a strange arms deal) and riddled with lots of cya (must be a lawyer by training). I would think when dealing in such "rare" pieces with high price points the diligence would have been much more in depth i.e. the careful and thoughtful examination that's been alluded too as well as full vetting of the origin and source of the watch. In addition, I hope that the buyer has been made aware of all the new developments as well as the other items the dealer has mentioned in this thread because the original listing for the watch makes no mention of being serviced, a pusher having been replaced, the other marks or issues with the dial, etc etc. As @jordn says this is a full blown franken and certainly not worth anything close to the price paid especially given the other replaced parts, etc.
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gop76
·@mentawatches , i don't have any reason to doubt you, your honesty or what you're saying but the dial was on Chrono24... on Chrono24 for God's sake...
I, a small, modest and not specially smart collector, found it in 5 min of research... I don't wanna offend you but don't you think that a 50k watch (and your clients) deserves a little more due diligence?
I, a small, modest and not specially smart collector, found it in 5 min of research... I don't wanna offend you but don't you think that a 50k watch (and your clients) deserves a little more due diligence?
