UG Polerouter: È/E isotope - a brief and unscientific survey

Severin · Dec 23, 2015

Further to some recent exchanges on the subject on this forum, I’ve done a quick, highly unscientific survey of the occurrence of the accent grave on the second letter “E” of the word “GENÈVE” on Polerouter models and summarize the survey results below for your interest.

I’ve limited my survey to Polerouters and have thus excluded Subs, Supers, Geneves, De Luxes etc. I looked at a select (i.e. not comprehensive) range of calibers and tried to cite five examples for each caliber. For the most part, I was able to find five illustrations of each caliber considered, with the exception of the 218, where I was only able to find one suitable example.

I determined caliber through a combination of movement photo and/or self-identification by the poster/seller. I excluded examples where the movement caliber was not evident or where the image was not clear enough (such a shame that the photos on polerouter.de site were too fuzzy to help here!).

Even though I tried to focus on relatively non-fuzzy images, it was not entirely clear in some cases whether I was seeing an accent or just the effects of patina - therefore, there may be an error of interpretation or two in the lot.

I also tried to exclude examples that appeared to me to be obvious redials - this may also be a source of error, as I am not a seasoned redial catcher. While I tried to avoid redials, I did not exclude non-original crystals or crowns.

A web link is provided for each example in case readers would like to see the specific examples for themselves. 31 examples were considered in total. The table below references all examples, the figure excludes the single 218 example.

In short, based solely on this limited and non-scientific survey, and subject to the caveats above, it appears that:

a. Presence of an accent grave on the word “GENÈVE” is the predominant variant on Polerouter dials sampled across calibers 138ss, 215, 215-1, 215-2, 218-2 and 69. The accent was also present on the single 218 caliber example I was able to find, although one cannot extrapolate on the basis of a single data point.

b. Although presence of an accent grave was the predominant variant on samples considered, almost each caliber considered also featured one or two instances where the accent grave was not present.

c. Samples of calibers 215-1 and 215-2 did not contain any examples where the accent grave was not present. In other words, the accent grave was present on all caliber 215-1 and 215-2 samples.

I’ll save interpretation of this for later and, in the meantime, for others. Subject to the extent to which I did not mistakenly include any redials in my sample, perhaps one immediate take away is confirmation of the opinion of some on this forum that lack of an accent grave on the word “GENÈVE” is not necessarily indicative of a redial.

What this survey does not address are the reasons for the isotopic È/E, (a.k.a E grave/E plain): the question remains whether there is some systematic explanation for the variation (for example, related to date of production, model, or other factor(s)) or whether it is unpredictable/random, such as related to Quality/Version control. Consideration of other UG timepieces might help shed further light. In doing this survey alone, I’ve found a few intriguing examples such as the Polerouter Sub below with and E grave - something I haven’t seen much of…

Anyhow, I better get back to the gingerbread house decorating! Thanks for listening - please feel free to add your own finds and interpretations.

nicolas07 · Dec 23, 2015

Very interesting job!
Thank you for sharing.

LouS · Dec 23, 2015

I love primary research. Very well done. I'll spent some time digesting this over the holiday

Modest_Proposal · Dec 23, 2015

Although this must have taken serious initiative and work and I applaud the effort, having 30 data points is not too much better than a single data point when many thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) of these were produced.

I wouldn't put much faith in the ratios discovered, but it is interesting.

x3no · Dec 24, 2015

Interesting read. I too will digest more, along with the many christmas cookies and ham that I'll also be digesting the next couple of days.

Adam2941 · Dec 24, 2015

This is very interesting research, thank you! I think what this shows is that UG, like many Swiss watch makers from the "golden age" of vintage mechanical watches (1940s-1970s) used many different dial makers, and that there were slight variations in the dials depending on the makers. I am afraid I do not understand what you mean by "...the isotopic È/E, (a.k.a E grave/E plain)." You are only looking at the accent grave over the second e in Geneve, correct? Also, one suggestion: although this would be more work for you, it would have helpful if you could download the images from the links you have found and place them in your post. That way, your post would still be useful long in the future, even after the original images are taken down from their various websites. I believe it is considered acceptable to download and repost images from the internet (I have seen several of my images reused on this forum), and you could always indicate in parentheses where they came from. I agree with you about polerouter.de! It is indeed very unfortunate that his images are such low quality.

aap · Dec 24, 2015

Thanks for putting in the time and effort @Severin!

Severin · Dec 25, 2015

Modest_Proposal
Although this must have taken serious initiative and work and I applaud the effort, having 30 data points is not too much better than a single data point when many thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) of these were produced.

I wouldn't put much faith in the ratios discovered, but it is interesting.

Indeed, the sample size is far too small to make any meaningful inferences related to the frequency distribution of variants. The survey was literally conducted between construction and setting of gingerbread house walls - more time would have resulted in more samples, but still far too few to determine whether there is a dominant variant.

At the most basic and perhaps robust, the results give me satisfaction that there are bonafide variants as far as the accent grave is concerned (provided that all of my non-grave examples were not redials). It still leaves the more interesting question open, however, as to the reason for such variants.

The connection I made with caliber may be entirely specious - it was just a way for me to more easily organize my searches and was an easy one to make given the information available to me. There may be more telling connections such as date of production or even intended market (for example, an earlier posted noted differences between Swiss and French French). I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts as to why such variants might exist.

In response to another poster's question as to the meaning of "isotope" in this context, I was simply drawing an analogy from physics/chemistry, where a given atom can come in a variety of flavours as far as the number of neutrons is concerned while still being recognizable as that given atom. Classic example is Hydrogen: Hydrogen has zero neutrons, deuterium is like Hydrogen, but has one neutron, tritium is like Hydrogen but has has two neutrons: despite having a different number of neutrons, deuterium and tritium are isotopes of Hydrogen. Probably a bad analogy - intended to speak to variants (i.e. accent grave vs simple) on a fundamental (i..e the UG Polerouter).

Happy Holidays and Happy New year to all.

Severin · Dec 28, 2015

As my remaining days of free time approach an end before it's back to business, I though I'd take up Adam2941's good idea above and post the pictures for future reference rather than leave only as links. Mods: if this is too much in terms of pic count, please feel free to delete. Thank you.

138 ss

a NO https://omegaforums.net/attachments/img_20151023_112708595-jpg.167611/

b YES https://omegaforums.net/data/attachments/80/80251-04e5fc5a2147b439ebb0b3b8a567b358.jpg

c YES https://omegaforums.net/data/attachments/79/79931-02b2d73ed7cc989e99e0bcdfbbf75c4a.jpg

d NO http://www.lorologiese.com/media/ca...n/universal_polerouter_ygf_blk_138ss_wtmk.jpg

e YES http://kronos.freeforums.org/universal-geneve-polerouter-bumper-138-ss-del-1955-t3408.html

215

a YES http://www.vintagewatch.ca/?p=361

b YES

c YES file:///C:/Users/PM/Desktop/UG%20accent/215%20c%20y.html

d NO http://s431.photobucket.com/user/Frans1953/media/Pole router/Polerouter215front.jpg.html

e YES http://www.lamesuredutemps.com/documents/Universal Genev Polerouter C215 2.JPG

Universal%20Genev%20Polerouter%20C215%202.JPG

215-1

a YES https://omegaforums.net/attachments/img-20151028-wa0021-jpg.167365/

b YES https://omegaforums.net/threads/sold-universal-genève-polerouter-date-18k-yg.24537/#post-277048

c YES http://www.lorologiese.com/media/ca...versal_polerouter_date_ygf_gld_215-1_wtmk.jpg

d YES http://www.lemuseonline.com/watches...eve/514-universal-geneve-polerouter-date.html

e YES

215-2

a YES https://omegaforums.net/threads/tropical-universal-geneve-polerouter.33090/

b YES https://omegaforums.net/threads/universal-geneve-polerouter.21073/#post-228842

c YES http://lh6.ggpht.com/-aoV3WaPhmK4/UvwnHNSpxkI/AAAAAAAAI58/JtZIhIgxsH4/s1600/IMG-20140212-06269.jpg

d YES http://allaboutwatch.blogspot.ca/2010/05/universal-polerouter-date.html

e YES http://watchguy.co.uk/photos/1139/IMG_0046.JPG

218-2

a YES https://omegaforums.net/attachments/20151012_202331-3-jpg.163394/

b YES https://omegaforums.net/threads/universal-geneve-polerouter-215-2.21354/#post-232030

c YES https://omegaforums.net/attachments/20150131_183255-jpg.100047/

d YES https://omegaforums.net/attachments/img_20150722_190916-jpg.143702/ (link is incorrect)

e NO http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=msg&th=1413255&

69

a YES https://omegaforums.net/attachments/image-jpg.157553/

b NO https://omegaforums.net/attachments/_57-1-jpg.108319/

c YES https://omegaforums.net/attachments/img_20150722_190916-jpg.143702/

d YES http://forum.horlogerie-suisse.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21518 (the one on the left)

e NO http://forum.horlogerie-suisse.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21518
in pic above, the one on the right.

Hijak · Dec 28, 2015

Two of those watches are mine.😀

Severin · Dec 28, 2015

p.s. in looking at them all on the same page, one thing that seems to jump out is that the words "AUTOMATIC MICROTOR" appear only in that small sample set with a caliber beginning with 215. In all others, the word "MICROTOR" is absent. Given that the above does not cover all calibers, I wonder which other models the term appears on?

Adam2941 · Dec 28, 2015

Thank you! This is VERY interesting. Your question about the word Microtor is also interesting. I have noticed that it does not always appear. There may not be logical answers to questions like these, but your research is a first step toward raising these questions and answering them.

Severin · Jan 20, 2016

This is completely obsessive, but I've noticed two more things based on the photos above:
a. Some have a single lume dot at twelve, some have two lume dots.
b. Some have a minute marker at twelve as well as a crosshair, some only have the crosshair but no minute marker at twelve.

LouS · Jan 20, 2016

By golly, you're right! That's completely obsessive.

You'll go far in this hobby.

Modest_Proposal · Jan 20, 2016

If you keep at this, Severin, you will become the Polerouter expert of the forum. An honorable title!

aap · Jan 21, 2016

LouS
By golly, you're right! That's completely obsessive.

You'll go far in this hobby.

Out of curiosity, what do you do for a living, @Severin ? 😀

vegard_norway · Jan 25, 2016

WOW. Thanks, very interesting reading.

Fer Seamaster · Jan 26, 2016

Many thanks for this work!

Zharko · Jun 28, 2017

Hello everyone. Sorry to pick up this discussion, but my Polerouter is different to all the others and I suspect it may be a re-dial. I hope the image comes out. I've never seen the single word Microtor, especially not with the line going through the letter O.

What also makes me suspicious is the bad printing of the letter P on Polerouter and the thing that looks like a grave accent but is more like just a blob.

What does everyone think? Real or redial?

Ben

ConElPueblo · Jun 28, 2017

At the very least it has (re)lume dot and unlumed hands... Wrong seconds hand too, but mine has that as well 😬

UG Polerouter: È/E isotope - a brief and unscientific survey

Severin

nicolas07

LouS

Modest_Proposal

x3no

Adam2941

aap

Severin

Severin

Hijak

Severin

Adam2941

Severin

LouS

Modest_Proposal

aap

vegard_norway

Fer Seamaster

Zharko

ConElPueblo

Similar threads

Horology 101: a Brief History of Self Winding watches

Polarouter, Polerouter & Polerouter Date dials: a brief survey with some observations

A brief (and perhaps late) introduction...

UG Polerouter +++ Give me an A

A Brief Review Of The New Chocolate