Two pics same serial but different?

Davidt · Dec 6, 2014

So he advertised and showed pictures of one dial and hand set, but wanted to swap them out before shipping the watch?! This get worse.

Purely from his point of view it would have worth him working with you to sort this out as to avoid giving one refund, he's going to lose a lot of potential sales here.

Barking mad · Dec 6, 2014

Davidt3449
So he advertised and showed pictures of one dial and hand set, but wanted to swap them out before shipping the watch?! This get worse.

Purely from his point of view it would have worth him working with you to sort this out as to avoid giving one refund, he's going to lose a lot of potential sales here.

No, I am ok with the dial set and it was discussed prior to any deal being negotiated. I am entirely happy with that. The issue was the swapping of the movement and components which has since been rectified but caused probably an even bigger problem now with the case back.

Once again the deal with the dial and hands has never been a problem and discussed up front. I don't want this to get out of hand and would like to stick to the truth and facts. Although I do appreciate the concern of all. At this point in time it appears no joy is going to come from the sellers end.

Davidt · Dec 6, 2014

Barking mad
No, I am ok with the dial set and it was discussed prior to any deal being negotiated. I am entirely happy with that. The issue was the swapping of the movement and components which has since been rectified but caused probably an even bigger problem now with the case back.

Once again the deal with the dial and hands has never been a problem and discussed up front. I don't want this to get out of hand and would like to stick to the truth and facts. Although I do appreciate the concern of all. At this point in time it appears no joy is going to come from the sellers end.

Ah ok, I misunderstood that part.

Thanks for clarifying and I hope you can come to a workable solution. Looks like you may have to get there without any help from the seller though.

Nobel Prize · Dec 6, 2014

Barking mad
The agreement to the deal was that he would change the dial and hands from another watch before shipping because he wanted to keep his dial and hands. I was OK with that as the dial and hands were appropriate and correct for the watch. When I received the watch and noticed everything else had been changed we had a number of mail exchanges with the final response below:

"Ok i can change the movement
Is not a problem for me
Send me the watch
Usually i dont change movement
Is only to make a fast change without put off the dial and hands"

Considering what needed to be altered in the movement to do this I could not see how it would be any quicker but was prepared to give the benefit of the doubt.

🤨

So, His add would go something like this:

For sale, (see picture of actual watch) rare and valuable Speedy with original movement, hands and dial in great condition. $x000.

Upon purchasing I will exchange dial and hands for similar items, because I like this ones and for some reason to me they are more valuable than what I'm giving you...but to you it should be about the same, so no discount.

Also of note, I can't be bothered to actually take the hands and the dial out, so I will also exchange the movement for a similar, if slightly dirtier and less pristine movement. Think nothing of this! you get what you get...no discount!

Please review the pictures very carefully and print them and place them on a wall or something because that's the last time you will see this watch.

P.S I may consider sending you a used SWATCH instead, I find it is simpler to pack and ship and it looks great. Besides, Plastic does not corrode like steel so you should thank me...No discount, but slight up-charge of additional $30.

JOKES ASIDE, THIS FACTS YOU DESCRIBE ALONE SHOULD HAVE THIS FELLOW LOOSE ANY CREDIBLE STANCE IN HOROLOGY, SALESMANSHIP, ETHICS, COMMON SENSE AND LIFE. (feel free to exchange these terms for whatever terms may seem more comfortable for you to read 😀)

Nobel Prize · Dec 6, 2014

Barking mad
No, I am ok with the dial set and it was discussed prior to any deal being negotiated. I am entirely happy with that. The issue was the swapping of the movement and components which has since been rectified but caused probably an even bigger problem now with the case back.

Once again the deal with the dial and hands has never been a problem and discussed up front. I don't want this to get out of hand and would like to stick to the truth and facts. Although I do appreciate the concern of all. At this point in time it appears no joy is going to come from the sellers end.

I get that, I just find it offensive that that was a deal for thousands of dollars and he could not take the time to freaking change the hands and dials FIRST along with the movement he intended to ship and actually post those pictures. You're okay with it, but it is NOT ok. not by a long shot. It is deceptive marketing at best, and at worst...well, whatever, the best is bad enough,

Skv · Dec 7, 2014

Sergio Maclean
🤨

So, His add would go something like this:

For sale, (see picture of actual watch) rare and valuable Speedy with original movement, hands and dial in great condition. $x000.

Upon purchasing I will exchange dial and hands for similar items, because I like this ones and for some reason to me they are more valuable than what I'm giving you...but to you it should be about the same, so no discount.

Also of note, I can't be bothered to actually take the hands and the dial out, so I will also exchange the movement for a similar, if slightly dirtier and less pristine movement. Think nothing of this! you get what you get...no discount!

Please review the pictures very carefully and print them and place them on a wall or something because that's the last time you will see this watch.

P.S I may consider sending you a used SWATCH instead, I find it is simpler to pack and ship and it looks great. Besides, Plastic does not corrode like steel so you should thank me...No discount, but slight up-charge of additional $30.

JOKES ASIDE, THIS FACTS YOU DESCRIBE ALONE SHOULD HAVE THIS FELLOW LOOSE ANY CREDIBLE STANCE IN HOROLOGY, SALESMANSHIP, ETHICS, COMMON SENSE AND LIFE. (feel free to exchange these terms for whatever terms may seem more comfortable for you to read 😀)

Wow, why have you agreed with the seller changing the movement for another and slightly durtier one without asking for additional pictures if i might ask?

Nobel Prize · Dec 7, 2014

I don't think he agreed that one, if you read through the thread that was the initial issue. This "add" is just something I made up to summarize the sellers actions. He did agree on the hand and dial switch but the movement switch was an added surprise. It has since been rectified...somewhat. Sad story.

Skv · Dec 7, 2014

Sergio Maclean
I don't think he agreed that one, if you read through the thread that was the initial issue. This "add" is just something I made up to summarize the sellers actions. He did agree on the hand and dial switch but the movement switch was an added surprise. It has since been rectified...somewhat. Sad story.

Sorry, my fault, it is hard to distinguish users from one another using tapatalk on my phone.

Barking mad · Dec 9, 2014

Well, after having no response from either company that I have mailed in relation to supplying a see through case back or repairing the one I have I thought that I would try the seller again to see if he was prepared to help in any way. Over the last few days he has offered a number of suggestions like "swap the case back with one of my other watches and it will be OK" a suggestion that I politely dismissed.

This is from tonight:

Me: Once again am I to assume that you don’t intend to do anything to rectify this situation?
Response: yes i can help you but I dont feel that it is 100% my fault for what happened the 2998 was in my collection with blue dial and caseback was closes perfectly
i send you the first time caseback was correct
now dont work
i think the watch take a knock and the thread was torn
i'm very sad for this and i want to help you it is always risky to send this kind of items all over the world
you think that i'm a bad seller?
Me: It certainly isn't my fault and I did not knock the watch and tear the thread. To do that would cause massive damage to the case and be clearly visible.
Why won't you give my watch and money back? Or what are you prepared to do?

As yet no response.

If it wasn't so serious it could almost be funny😡

Nobel Prize · Dec 9, 2014

Would shipping not be insured on his end? Can't he take it back and charge the shipper for damages? That said, Any have decent packaging would avoid this, and for a case back to loose it's thread due to shock I would assume there would be massive damage to the movement, because the caseback itself doesn't have the weight to pull itself off even at 50g unless something forced it out from the inside. So no, that's not how this happened.

Someone, somehow did not know this case is a screw on case and tried to remove it by pressure, or more likely put it back on by pressing, maybe with equipment that would add force. ( don't know the name of the tool, but I've seen it used.) Maybe a watchmaker assistant, or a very distracted serviceman. You, or a good expert should be able.to assess wether the threads where forced on one direction or the other. I bet it was forced inwards. The question is who and how, and can you prove this did not happen on your end. ( just stating this for the sake of legal argument). Was there any insurance on shipping?

Barking mad · Dec 9, 2014

I actually come from an engineering background. There only two ways this type of damage could have happened and that is by way over tightening and pulling the thread of or by cross threading.

Nobel Prize · Dec 9, 2014

Right, so neither of those could happen in transit. So what to do? And how to prove it if it comes to worse?

Don't despair because of no reply on the laser threading or case back. These things take time and the holidays are busy times. A lot of these techs and craftsmen are not necessarily good on their email upkeep. Maybe someone connected in the forum can give you an introduction. PM them. I am new here and have no connections

John R Smith · Dec 9, 2014

Barking mad
I actually come from an engineering background. There only two ways this type of damage could have happened and that is by way over tightening and pulling the thread of or by cross threading.

My best guess is that the back was mis-threaded (cross-threaded) and then whoever it was just tried to tighten it up anyhow. Are you sure that only the thread on the back is damaged? Because if the thread in the case is also scuppered (which it could be) then a new back will not be a complete solution.

Barking mad · Dec 9, 2014

The thread in the case is not fantastic but I think it will be ok. In the email to the laser welding company I have provided pics of both and sought their advice.

Nobel Prize · Dec 9, 2014

What a mess. good luck!

Tom Dick · Dec 9, 2014

WOW, I've just caught up on this........ there is a saying between my mates and I back in essex to describe something which is borderline unbelievably shit......... the saying is 'thats not so good'

This is not so good

I really hope this gets resolved! What an absolute shocker of a situation, I remain at your disposal if I can help in any way shape or form

JohnSteed · Dec 9, 2014

Tom Dick
WOW, I've just caught up on this........ there is a saying between my mates and I back in essex to describe something which is borderline unbelievably shit......... the saying is 'thats not so good'

This is not so good

I really hope this gets resolved! What an absolute shocker of a situation, I remain at your disposal if I can help in any way shape or form

+1 from across the pond!!

M.D. · Dec 9, 2014

+1 here too. I've been following this thread closely. I'm a relative newbie, but hate to see how this has gone so far and am happy to join the team to help in any way.

jud · Dec 9, 2014

Still amazed at how bad this has become. Good luck sorting it out.

Barking mad · Dec 10, 2014

I have now run out of patience. I have tried to achieve a positive outcome and even suggest a replacement watch and he offered a 145.012-68 as a possibility which would have been a great deal for him, the most expensive 145.012-68 in history.

Tonight I informed him that if a resolution could not be found by tomorrow that I would open a case with Pay pal.

Me:If there is no satisfactory resolution to this by tomorrow I am going to open a claim with Paypal as this has gone on for too long and I have run out of patience.

Him:No return in this case
Is not my fault, you know that
If you want a help we can informa about a re-threat
Matteo - The Master of Speed

Me:It is not my fault. You have not offered any solutions. I have all documented if you leave me no choice I will do what I have to. It is not a threat but what I have to do.
If I do not inform them soon I will run out of time.

Him:I dont understand what u want
I cant refund you
U know the situation
You send me the watch and now that the movement is okey you want a refund because the caseback now dont close?
The case back was perfect
Matteo - The Master of Speed

Me:I want my money back. The thread is missing off the case back and it cannot be screwed on. As I stated as soon as I unpacked the watch the case back fell off. I sent you the pictures of the case back and the damaged thread.
I did not damage the thread and the case back cannot attached to the watch. This damage must have been there before the watch was shipped.
I gave you the opportunity to replace with a different watch and you chose to insult me by offering a 105.012-68 which is at best worth about half of a 2998-61.

Please if anyone can see how I could have caused the damage or it could be my fault let me know before I make a fool of myself with Paypal.
I know in my mail I said 105 however I did not want to alter the original text but it is meant to read 145.

I won't bore everyone with further more minor details until I have a final outcome, either with Paypal or the seller.
I still hope for a positive outcome but not looking too promising at this stage.