to be fair, you have seen a lot of watches, and have quite the experience!

 

Yahoo Japan is crawling with fake Tudor Subs, and there is a reason why they sell for 10% of market value for a legit example. Unfortunately, I don't think you will get your money back from a proxy buyer. The terms and conditions are pretty clear.

 

I ran into trouble with a King Seiko with an undisclosed refinished dial using Buyee as a proxy bidder. I realised before Buyee shipped it onto me and requested a return to seller. They advised that the seller had a no returns policy and there was nothing I could do about it. I considered a PayPal dispute but figured that would likely result in the cancellation of my Buyee account even if I was successful. I accepted the watch and waited patiently until I found a junker to donate a nice dial. Since then I've treated purchasing from Japan via Buyee as though there was no buyer protection at all.
i hope you're successful with your PayPal claim. As others have noted, there are plenty of fake Tudor subs available in Japan.

 

Thanks Dan, Tritto. All this information is very useful. Let's see how the claim process goes, I know the chances of getting my money back is very slim. I have written to Mercari as well.

 

All the flaws, you mentioned now and after the purchase , are well known and easy to spot. Just need patience and these days there are no bargains for genuine Tudor Subs. And before you hopefully send it back : Now study very carefully the outside case back engravings with the best Loupe, you can get. The engraving method matters and this is your best bet for the future, to spot fakes. You have an Laser engraving here. The vintage Subs were engraved with a Pantograph. Study the inner line. A tool makes something like a triangle shaped/ like a Chanel shaped line. Laser engraving has no defined mark. The material is " burned off " and it is like a flat, very rough line. That have the fakes in common. There are 2 fakes, I've seen, that use the old Pantograph's as well. Then it gets more complicated. But these fakes are not cheap at all. They can fool Tudor collectors. Good luck!

 

These are the educational posts that I love.

 

Thanks @watchyouwant, I have taken a look at the text on the back of my 7021/0 under the loupe - hmm, more dirt in that text than I realised. What stands out to me is where the cuts intersect you can see slight changes in level as one cut crosses over another (particularly noticeable in the As and Rs).

 

There are several different engraving fonts depending on years, so best to post clear & focused photos.

 

Having zero knowledge of tudor, I had no idea that this was a "fake" watch.
This is why vintage has such a high barrier to entry.
I got "burned" on my first couple of watches... and from my "best friend" at the time too.
Don't trust anyone but yourself... well use other peoples' opinions as reference, but do your research!

 

Hi Dan, I guess I got lucky. I returned the item and I have recevied a full refund from Buyee.jp (Tenso Inc), I am not sure what worked in my favour.

 

HI

HI @JwRosenthal , I sent the fake fucker back and have received a full refund. Not sure what worked in my favour, I guess PayPal fought well on my behalf . Well I am thankful to Buyee (Tenso Inc) as well, they offered full refund on return of the item. I am not sure if that's the usual scenario. Anyways, I got my money back and got rid of a junk from my collection.

 

That's remarkable. I once received a fake bracelet, and Buyee was completely unwilling to do anything. They wouldn't even contact the seller to let him know that it was fake. That was a good idea to contact PayPal, I didn't think to do that.

 

You got lucky. Very lucky!

Morale of this story, ask first, buy second if legit. Plenty of people knowledgeable across the various brands can be found here on OF.

And don't necessarily "Buy the seller", I have seen some well known names that should know better argue for a fake watch.

 

Howdy Spacefruit. Newport, RI says "Hi" .

And I disagree with Achim's "there are no bargains for genuine Tudor subs", they exist, they are just harder to find ; ) .