"Trusted dealer" info.

wouter van wijk

As a dealer I would like to comment here and share some of my own thoughts and experiences for what its worth.
I buy and sell vintage pieces (most more than 20 years old) from and to dealers as wel as consumers. It lies in human nature to tell the story the buyer wants to belief. If you are motivated to buy, some people want to get an extra motivation (fairytales included) others want to hear the truth. I like to state as much as possible so that customers can make their own judgemnet. Also don't want to cover up stuff with photoshop. But like selling your house it helps you when someone makes nice pictures.
Nevertheless there's is some really bad behavior. Everywhere. From dealers to consumers and vice versa! I have also bought from reputable dealers pieces that are sold as serviced and then may watchmaker tells me that its completely not the truth. You never have to trust, you only buy trust by buying and building a relationship with people. Since I started buying and selling as a pro from 2018 I have experienced the good the bad and the ugly. I havent had the compete franken experience but there are some really nasty bits. But what would you expect buying a more than 20 year old piece with an unknown service history?
You can expect that it will have some issues. As long as you don't get a written service document there will be a chance of some issues. I prefer to buy my watches with no service history since then I can let my own watchmaker take care of it so that eventually I know what actually happened. Sometimes a watchmaker prefers to not completely overhaul a watch since they then have to change so many parts to get it up to like new condition. You can also over service a watch since every service will mean the screw get turned and it will risk to get some damage. They also have their favorite movements they like to work on. It is an old watch and does it have to run like new?
If you buy a watch with a recent service at a manufacture it will mean that the watch runs as good as possible.This service will be more expensive in the end but it will add value. Some watchmaking departments at brands are good and some are really bad. But even when I let an Omega certified watchmaker service a watch there are many differences between different Omega certified watchmakers. Some like to regulate a watch for weeks and some do it in one week or a day or 2. For dealers time means money. As a dealer you take judgment what kind of service is appropriate for each kind of watch. When I sell a Speedmaster they all get a service by a retired watchmaker who used to be and Omega certified watchmaker. For my average Rolex Datejust I used to let an average watchmaker do the job since its the movement every watchmaker knows since many learn the art of watchmaking working on Rolex movements. Sometimes a rolex service center can be better for higher end pieces. And other times you really don't have to that to avoid risk of removing old parts. When I have a watch with some parts that need to get made by hand I have another specialist. When a watch need to get polished I also have an expert. Long story short, a good dealer has its own pool of experts or sources for different kind of brands and topics.
If you have a good dealer he will stick with you. What I think is my greatest asset is my reputation. I can f**k people up one time, but I prefer to have returning customers who tell to their friend you should buy with that guy, he is one of the good guys.
About pricing. Some of the watches dealers sell are off course priced quite high. They have to pay taxes make an income and pay for expenses like a watchmaker, rent, insurance and also after service!! So to me what is most important to know when you would buy from a dealer is this guy there for the long term or is he there for the short buck. So just look what people say about the after service. And if you ask him if he can give some examples about his after service and what he has done before in case a watch of one of his customers got an issue. The upside from a well known dealer with a high quality kind of stock and reputation is that he will buy and sell pieces which he buys from high end dealers and collectors who take care of their products. So in the long run, quality has its price. You can always hunt for the cheap ones but most of the times you will have to make additional expenses for some hidden issues. And don't forgot in todays crowded market there is not such a thing as a free lunch.

STANDY

Plenty of nice watches and plenty of Brands.

One bit of advice if your buying to $1000 for this $3000 for that.
I would always prefer a great condition lesser known brand than a average known bigger brand if they are both the same price.

So how about some pictures for the thread

Longines

Zenith

Omega

Even......


Eterna

Lemania

GP Girard Perregaux

Waltham

janice&fred

Nice lineup but you left out IWC Doxa And Bulova .

STANDY

Sorry

MikeMan2727

"Trusted Dealer"

A bit of an oxymoron, no?

wouter van wijk

The reason that I joined OF is cause i think there is a really profound knowledge from the members and it is the one and only really easy to navigate forum with a wide scope of topics. What i don't get is this in my eyes discriminative and bit salty offensive attitude on OF from some older members against dealers. In all honesty it kind of makes me thinking to turn away from OF. Some people around here don't know how to get as fast on the fence to throw salty comments at dealers and in all honesty i don't get it. There are some dealers who do shitty things which has been discussed in several topics here on OF ( search for Frankenwatches and dealers) but I personally rather have a positive attitude and give some feedback that is useful to a wider community.
I am telling the OP this because its my experience as a new dealer and i think it can be quite helpful to some of the new people who are over here. Not especially for the people who seem to be doing not a lot more then lingering around on OF shooting out wisecracks.
I am telling the OP about my experience from buying watches from several sources and the experience i got from dealing with watchmakers with whom i worked direct, indirectly and about the jobs of watchmakers that have been done according to dealers i have bought from. I think this can be very useful since it shows the issues and experiences from a day to day watch business.
I have bought on forums and on classified site watches also from consumers which had several issues which also started to occur after they came in and were tested by me. Why do you think a collector sells a piece? He wants to move a piece which is the least loved one (sometimes meaning with some issues....) He even might want to earn some money on it cause he wants to move up on the ladder. No watch collecting isn't the same as giving money to charity. So even buying on a forum can be risky. You don't have to expect after service when you buy a piece at a forum. Only when you have built a relationship with a forum member who has proven to be trustworthy.
I personally have had some watchmakers in the beginning, that i don't use anymore. I got some watches returned from customers. This can happen cause everybody makes mistakes, but when the rate gets too high i don't think thats a good thing. Getting a good watchmaker which is fast enough to do an appropriate job for the right amount of money is really difficult. There are many watchmakers out there and service centers who only work b2b and not for consumers. It takes time to get the right guy to find and even then they cant handle all types of watches or get their hands on all kind of parts. There are some (most often specialized) watchmakers who have a waiting list for 2 years. Those guys can be really good (most often quite expensive since they have a good name and don't have a b2b rate cause their collector clients pay the full price) but they are not good for my business. You want your stock to rotate as fast as possible.
For Cartier for instance, i can use my own watchmaker who does a complete service for easy to work on manual wound eta based movements for 150 euros (at a b2b rate), i can also send it to Richemont which cost me 450 (b2b). These rates will cost consumers times 2. This only makes sense for certain models where a service at a manufacture service center adds value and makes a watch sell faster. Depending on the rarity and complexity of the piece and price i will chose to send it to an original manufacturer service center. And sometimes this is better and sometimes this actually isn't. Recently i sold to a collector 3 Cartiers at once to one collector and one of those watches had just arrived the other day. I discussed this with my client what he preferred and gave him the price with a Cartier service or with my own watchmaker. He chose my own watchmaker and also handed his Rolex he got from his parents more than 20 years ago.
What Archer says is imho is not 100% true. If you have a car or a watch and it works fine, all the oil levels are great etc it doesn't make sense to do a complete overhaul or service. With a car you get a small or a big service depending on the condition of the engine or car. Sometimes it also does not make sense to do a complete service when you have for instance a modular chronograph movement you can also do a partial service and decide not to service the chronograph. it can also happen that a watch has been serviced 2 years ago and has an issue with a crown. Then it doesn't have to get a complete overhaul. Btw I advise my clients a complete service interval for 5 years.
So if you still think or try to suggest that i am a shady dealer thats fine with me.
The way how i treat my customers is the way how i like to be treated myself. That "do good and good will come to you" principle works fine with me. It would also be nice if it would work on this forum and if not i rather spend time doing things that benefit another community.
Btw OP if you are looking for gilt Longines Conquest I will be at your service (always be closing;-))

janice&fred

I wouldn't paint all dealers with the same brush. There are many that are good guys and those dealers are a solid source for this hobby.

Dan S

There are some dealers that I like very much as people and I appreciate the knowledge that they bring to the hobby. When they hunt down family pieces, vet them, and bring them to the market, that's a very good thing. There are some watch references that are such a minefield, that I feel more comfortable buying from a dealer who is a true expert. However, I don't really put most dealers into this category, many are just shuffling watches around like commodities. And there are so many collectible watches just sitting in the inventory of dealers (for months or even years) with ridiculous asking prices. That is not a good thing.

Regarding dealers who participate in this forum, I love it. You can often get some real insight into them as people.

bigsom

Sure some collectors become dealers and I understand that, but I would argue it is motivated by the desire to profit rather than a sense of community or increasing the body of knowledge