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Thoughts on this Speedmaster 105.012-65 please

dscoogs
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I have been thinking about a 105.012-65 and ran across this one. Checking against my MWO book this watch has a nice close T dial, a fair Dot over 90 bezel, period correct - hands / double bevel caseback / A1.24 crown / wide and short pushers / fair 1506/16 bracelet - and a seemingly correct movement number. Overall a "very good" 105.012-65 to my untrained eyes. Asking price is a bit above SP101 "very good".

Please advice if I miss or misstate anything. Thank you in advance.
1.webp 2.webp 3.webp 4.webp 5.webp 6.webp 7.webp 8.webp 9.webp 10.webp 11.webp 12.webp 13.webp 14.webp 15.webp 16.webp
 
ErichKeane
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FAR from an expert either, but the mismatch in lume between the seconds chrono hand and dial + hour/minute hand (PLUS the condition of dial + seconds chrono hand), tells me that this probably isn't the original dial + seconds chrono hand. OR, at least makes me suspicious of that.

Case looks sharp, but the endlink fitment is also leaving me concerned. There is something odd with the inside shape of the 7 oclock lug as well, and maybe the 2 oclock lug.
 
hansaboy
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I Like the watch!
👍👍👍
The watch is used, but in a good condition.
The parts look correct, but the hands are a bit tired...
The is a strange spot/mark/dent on the side - do you know what it is?
Remember to deduct the value of the bracelet, since the chart is "head only".
It also needs a service.

And to assess the dial - could you get better and brighter pictures?
Close-ups..?


Skärmavbild 2025-12-18 kl. 16.54.16.webp
 
dscoogs
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ErichKeane ErichKeane
FAR from an expert either, but the mismatch in lume between the seconds chrono hand and dial + hour/minute hand (PLUS the condition of dial + seconds chrono hand), tells me that this probably isn't the original dial + seconds chrono hand. OR, at least makes me suspicious of that.

Case looks sharp, but the endlink fitment is also leaving me concerned. There is something odd with the inside shape of the 7 oclock lug as well, and maybe the 2 oclock lug.
hansaboy hansaboy
I Like the watch!
👍👍👍
The watch is used, but in a good condition.
The parts look correct, but the hands are a bit tired...
The is a strange spot/mark/dent on the side - do you know what it is?
Remember to deduct the value of the bracelet, since the chart is "head only".
It also needs a service.

And to assess the dial - could you get better and brighter pictures?
Close-ups..?


Skärmavbild 2025-12-18 kl. 16.54.16.webp
Thank you for your comments. The watch is listed here - https://greyandpatina.com/product/1965-omega-105-012-65-pumpkin-speedmaster/ - you can hover the cursor over the pic for close up look.
 
Dan S
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Definitely Not very good for me because of hand issues and case condition. Maybe good, maybe. But you need to add the value of the bracelet of course.

Historically I have not had a good opinion of this dealers listings. So I would tread carefully.
 
Davidt
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I think it’s fairly good and crucially attractive to me.

I’m going to go against the grain here and say that it’s not uncommon for 60’s Speedmasters to have darker hand lume than that seen in the dial. Almost every vintage Speedmaster I’ve owned that I believe to be original had darker hands. Perfectly matched dial/hand lume is a bigger red flag to me on these.
 
Davidt
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As an example, I believed this Ed White to be fully original when I bought it.
The original owner bought it in the 60’s and used it for dingy racing for a few years before it was retired to a drawer for 40 years. The original owner, whom I bought it from, insisted nothing was ever changed. I believe this as the pushers, old logo crystal etc were all period 60’s items and nothing on the watch suggested it had been messed with.

Note the hand lume is darker than the dial.

Why this happens, whether it’s different manufacturers for the dial and hands, whether the hands age differently because they are exposed to the atmosphere both front and back, whereas the dial lume is only exposed on one side, I don’t know. But I’ve had several examples that I believe to be original exhibiting the same darker hands.
It’s my belief that the hands are more susceptible to darkening due to exposure to moisture than the dial is.
Obviously this impacts on attractiveness but that’s a separate question.

IMG_0027.webp IMG_0026.webp



Here are some other barn find 60’s/early 70’s speedmasters exhibiting the same darker hands to varying degrees. I beloved all of these watches to be likely original based on how/where I bought them, from who, overall condition etx.

IMG_3447.webp IMG_5807.webp IMG_2605.webp IMG_3611.webp
 
pitbos
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Dan S Dan S
Historically I have not had a good opinion of this dealers listings. So I would tread carefully.
I would strongly agree with Dan on this.
 
big case
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Give people what they want

since many years this is the approach from vintage watch dealers

so we see / will see:

matching lume

pictures (and watches) as shown from "Davidt" will have rarity value
(but matching lume will be financially rewarded)
 
Ron_W
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Davidt Davidt
I think it’s fairly good and crucially attractive to me.

I’m going to go against the grain here and say that it’s not uncommon for 60’s Speedmasters to have darker hand lume than that seen in the dial. Almost every vintage Speedmaster I’ve owned that I believe to be original had darker hands. Perfectly matched dial/hand lume is a bigger red flag to me on these.
I agree, and the lume is also partially missing/crumbled which could mean "same age" as the dial. The dial is very attractive. The price maybe okay for a dealer but for me it is not a SP101 very good (5 digit) price watch.
 
hansaboy
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Erhh.....some issues!

Binder leakage or something that should not be there...
And the minute hand needs adjustment.

Maybe nothing that you would notice on the wrist, but you should know about them?
And adjust the value?
Skärmavbild 2025-12-18 kl. 19.31.11.webp Skärmavbild 2025-12-18 kl. 19.32.26.webp Skärmavbild 2025-12-18 kl. 19.31.32.webp
 
dscoogs
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Thank you @Davidt for your very educational (at least for me) post and everyone else for your comments. Sounds like this is a watch much closer to SP101 “good” rather than “very good”, and the asking price does not reflect that. I’ll keep on waiting for a better one 🙏
 
Davidt
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Let’s be clear though. You are not going to be able to buy a vintage Speedmaster at a price aligned with the categories in the sp101 price chart from a dealer. As far as I understand it, those prices are generally reflective of historic private/auction sales.

Dealer prices will always be higher, often significantly so.
 
Jones in LA
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Definitely does not meet the Very Good threshold, I'd call it Fair+/Good- and if you decide to, make an offer on that basis.

And personally, I like Fair+/Good- for a wearable watch. No need to fret about wearing a museum piece.

Here's my Fair+/Good- -66, the condition looks a lot like the watch in question.

IMG_4572.webp
 
S
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ErichKeane ErichKeane
Woah, they claim those are original hands, and 'no true scotsman'ed their way into justifying it. But man, those hands look fresh-off-the-factory-floor and that dial is distinctly... not.
For this particular reference, it is generally accepted for the dial and hands to not match. So much so that when they do match I wonder if it is a relume.
 
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