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This craft we call writing: The Hodinkee house style

cvalue13
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pseikotick pseikotick
Absolutely, once we've sunken to misusing the ellipsis, the only logical next step is flinging our own excrement and eating our young.
The question is not how ("difficult" is the proper word) it is to use commas and semicolons. The question is how much does it MATTER? Not much in a watch forum where many of us are "typing" on our phones. Cmon.

next post:

pseikotick pseikotick
Was this meant to be ironic? Editing/ Put food on your family. If so, that’s clever. Probably one of those jokes only told among editors. The main way I put food on MY family is usually hearing something very funny while chewing.

upload_2020-2-20_22-57-9.jpeg
 
Kmart
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cvalue13 cvalue13
You’ve just indicted half of the OF membership (and I’m standing, applauding).

On the contrary, I think most people here type pretty well. There are a few individuals on various fora (and there may be one or two here as well) that do it though and it legitimately makes most of their posts completely incoherent. Punctuation exists for a reason people!

pseikotick pseikotick
Absolutely, once we've sunken to misusing the ellipsis, the only logical next step is flinging our own excrement and eating our young.
The question is not how ("difficult" is the proper word) it is to use commas and semicolons. The question is how much does it MATTER? Not much in a watch forum where many of us are "typing" on our phones. Cmon.

I think it does matter. A properly punctuated sentence / paragraph is a lot easier to read than one which is split up by periods only. And keep in mind I'm not talking about people who occasionally misuse the ellipsis, I'm talking about people who only use the ellipsis. I don't see how typing on your phone is an excuse for using three periods in place of a comma or a single period for some reason.

Anyway, that bugs the hell out of me. But Stephen Pulvirent's writing bugs me far more than that. Which is saying something.
 
cvalue13
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Kmart Kmart
On the contrary, I think most people here type pretty well.

I support grammar policing, but policing comedic hyperbole is a bridge too far! 😁
 
ExpiredWatchdog
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How hard is it to use commas and semicolons...? Not very hard....

Ah, but you have to know the difference and when each is appropriate; this is something that, I'm ashamed to say, isn't a strong suite among the txt gen.
 
cvalue13
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ExpiredWatchdog ExpiredWatchdog
Ah, but you have to know the difference and when each is appropriate; this is something that, I'm ashamed to say, isn't a strong suite among the txt gen.

One can’t form a proper emoticon without knowing how to use use a semicolon. 😉

EDIT: “use use”? While we’re on the topic: is it just me, or is there some gremlin within the combo of iPhone + OF posting platform that makes for the WORST auto-fill/correct. I would never type “use use,” but there it is.
Edited:
 
Syrte
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krogerfoot krogerfoot
I think they are genuinely bad writers. I won't pretend to be a watch expert, so I'll leave the criticisms of Hodinkee's scholarship to others. What gets up my nose about the typical Hodinkee article is that the breezy style serves not only to signal an oily comfort with superexpensive luxury goods, it also acts as a hedge against accountability. The dashed-off air of these pieces is a disclaimer against errors and lapses, because the writer isn't really putting all that much effort into it.

Actually that is quite interesting because I once found an on line interview with Ben Clymer where he addressed the point that his magazine used to be a scrappy blog for enthusiasts and they’re now essentially catering to a wealthier audience, and his reply was in substance, if your business it to talk about pieces of men’s jewelery which are both expensive and inessential, you cannot survive as a business if you don’t cater to the wealthy.
I was actually impressed how straightforward he was about it, and I thought «okay, fair enough».

Of course the discussion here shows that comes at a price, they’re losing some other readers- but do they care? They’ve made their choice knowingly. Or at least they have evolved with the market that they have helped create.

Edit /add -the huge irony is how often watch publications and auction houses call watches « important » to justify the money they’re looking to make.
Edited:
 
Larry S
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Syrte Syrte
Actually that is quite interesting because I once found an on line interview with Ben Clymer where he addressed the point that his magazine used to be a scrappy blog for enthusiasts and they’re now essentially catering to a wealthier audience, and his reply was in substance, if your business it to talk about pieces of men’s jewelery which are both expensive and inessential, you cannot survive as a business if you don’t cater to the wealthy.
I was actually impressed how straightforward he was about it, and I thought «okay, fair enough».

Of course the discussion here shows that comes at a price, they’re losing some other readers- but do they care? They’ve made their choice knowingly. Or at least they have evolved with the market that they have helped create.

Edit /add -the huge irony is how often watch publications and auction houses call watches « important » to justify the money they’re looking to make.
Let’s be that “scrappy blog for the enthusiast” community then!
Edited:
 
Archer
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pseikotick pseikotick
The question is not how ("difficult" is the proper word) it is to use commas and semicolons. The question is how much does it MATTER?

Let's eat Grandma.

Let's eat, Grandma.

Punctuation matters.
 
TDBK
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cvalue13 cvalue13
is it just me, or is there some gremlin within the combo of iPhone + OF posting platform that makes for the WORST auto-fill/correct
There is some interaction between the OF text entry field and mobile text entry which creates errors. I haven't tracked it down in detail, but I find that when editing or inserting text in the middle of a response (as opposed to appending text on the end), the engine can get confused by autocorrect or other keyboard magic, resulting in missing text, cursor movement, or other errors.
 
Archer
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pseikotick pseikotick
And Archer, if punctuation ever leads to the eating of anyone's grandmother, I will begin editing my posts much more carefully.

It's your choice or not to write in a manner that makes your intent clear.

Your implied reasoning that because you are typing on a phone, that hitting 3 keystrokes (…) instead of 2 (, ) is somehow more efficient, is dubious.
 
cvalue13
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pseikotick pseikotick
Everything is choice...
Choice is everything.

Responding in this thread with an incorrectly used ellipses is the gentlest of trolls.
 
cvalue13
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Syrte Syrte
I was actually impressed how straightforward he was about it, and I thought «okay, fair enough».

Of course the discussion here shows that comes at a price, they’re losing some other readers- but do they care? They’ve made their choice knowingly. Or at least they have evolved with the market that they have helped create.

Ben Clymer has similarly impressed me in certain interviews or podcasts. As I understand it, he didn’t come from much, was in journalism school, and began blogging about watches on the side; my details are surely off, but that’s the general picture. A ‘scrappy’ character who took a not insignificant risk, and devoted considerable effort, in turning his professional endeavors toward his love of watches. I find it hard to fault such a character. (He’s certainly not “a banker” as someone above implied.)

And similarly (in terms of being impressed), across the interviews or podcasts I’ve heard, Clymer may not have as deep a knowledge in any one or few watch brands or models, but he’s demonstrated an impressive range of watch knowledge across models, vintages, etc. Ir stands to reason that a person who’s dedicated their professional life to the subject has picked up more than a thing or two. Perhaps more than most around here, and certainly more than me.

When I combine the two observations above (to the extent they’re correct), I’m left with only respect for the fact this person now has a job and livelihood, not a hobby. With that transition comes inevitable trade-offs that keep many a person awake at night.

From the armchair of my relatively risk-free hobby, I can decide to read or not read Hodinkee; but like you @Syrte, I don’t start down the path of broadly implicating their character or intelligence.
 
Archer
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cvalue13 cvalue13
Ben Clymer has similarly impressed me in certain interviews or podcasts. As I understand it, he didn’t come from much, was in journalism school, and began blogging about watches on the side

Guess he skipped the journalistic integrity classes...and excelled at the "pump and dump" classes.
 
cvalue13
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Archer Archer
Guess he skipped the journalistic integrity classes...and excelled at the "pump and dump" classes.

Which watch “journalism” companies do you like?

I wonder if there’s that much market to sustain such a thing.

Meanwhile, I’ll can read critically, and remember that they’re only writing about watches.
Edited:
 
Archer
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cvalue13 cvalue13
Which watch “journalism” companies do you like?

I can’t think of any better, but would love to know of some.

On the other hand, it could be that there’s no actual market to sustain such a thing.

Meanwhile, I’ll continue managing to read critically and take from it what it’s worth, while not faulting anyone’s “integrity” over how they write about watches.

None of these blogs are proper "journalism" in the "writing of news" sense. They are written for enthusiasts, to promote and sell watches. It's marketing rather than news. At the very least a magazine like Watchtime (I used to be a subscriber) would actually test the watches and give you some real performance data on timekeeping...but still it's a glossy magazine that relies on companies providing them watches to review, so they aren't going to bite the hands that feed them.

I find Hodonkey to be particularly bad at promoting their own watches, under the guise of "reporting", and not just Ben. Was it a coincidence that they had an article on a VC chronograph extolling it's virtues, and calling it "one of the most important enthusiast-oriented chronographs any company has made in quite some time." and 6 months later they "just happened" to release a Ltd. Edition version of the same VC chronograph, that they had been working on for a year?

I think not, but if you want to believe it was, that's up to you...

How they write is one thing - the motivation behind what they right is another.
 
cvalue13
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Archer Archer
I think not, but if you want to believe it was, that's up to you...

How they write is one thing - the motivation behind what they right is another.

Sounds like we’re in violent agreement that Hodinkee is a for-profit business, and readers should read accordingly!
 
mz_cle
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Syrte Syrte
my only problem with them is when they insist on holding themselves out as «journalists ».

I have noticed that they are quite sensitive to any insinuation that their "editorial" (used with some discretion) and web retail businesses are absolutely fire walled. I tend to think they doth protest too much, in that regard, as I see the responses on Instagram and twitter.

I have a truly conflicted relationship with the site. I read it far too frequently for my own comfort. Some writers are better than others. Some articles are better composed than others. One writer in particular has a specific proclivity for overly trite phrases and "cuteness," and I admit to reading his pieces to only feed my own distaste.
 
kingsrider
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I admit to reading his pieces to only feed my own distaste.
I feel the same way about CNN.::facepalm1::
 
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