The lawyers' thread: discussion on watch-related legal matters

jaspers · Dec 16, 2019

Recently I've come across some threads discussing law-related issues in the watch industry, for instance on some Danish artists cutting up someone else's painting to sell it as watch dials, the lengths Rolex go to aggressively litigate alleged trademark infringement and the intricacies of import taxation.

As a lawyer, I have nothing against non-lawyers discussing current affairs related to the law, but I thought that maybe it'd be interesting to set up a thread for the lawyers out here on OF for some thorough legal discussion. So, lawyers of OF...reveal yourselves!

This thread should, I think, contain a show and tell—which I'll gladly kick off:
- specialized in antitrust law
- based in continental Western Europe (graduated 2012)
- practiced for 5 years, now law school professor
- otherwise interested (but by no means authoritative) in intellectual property, constitutional law

Walrus · Dec 16, 2019

I am curious about ip. I read back in the early railroad days US watches were known as some of the best and Switzerland used a lot of US ideas with the intent of taking the watch “crown” what can be copyrighted or protected in watches. You see so many that are watches made to look like other watches, and I don’t just mean the fakes. I guess it’s a bit like the Apple Samsung court battles, not all of them, but the more general look of a phone ones.

Spruce · Dec 16, 2019

I specialised in defence criminal litigation, criminal advocacy (jury trials and non-jury trials) and fraud/corruption cases. For the first fifteen years of practice I wore a three piece suit and the antique watch my parents gave me on qualification before Mrs S insisted that I lose the stiff collars and waistcoats and enter the 20th Century.

And I started out collecting, collecting Parker 51 & 61 pens, which I rotated, rather like I now collect and rotate wrist watches.

SpeedyPhill · Dec 17, 2019

The watchmaker certainly made legal arrangements, but here's a video questioning use of the British military broad arrow aka pheon symbol
.

Longbow · Dec 17, 2019

SpeedyPhill
The watchmake certainly made legal arrangements, but here's a video questioning use of the British military broad arrow aka pheon symbol
.

This might help shed some light on the matter:-
https://assets.publishing.service.g...yright_Licensing_Information_Version_v0_1.pdf

Archer · Dec 17, 2019

SpeedyPhill
The watchmake certainly made legal arrangements, but here's a video questioning use of the British military broad arrow aka pheon symbol
.

I consider this review to be excrement...

jaspers · Dec 17, 2019

SpeedyPhill
The watchmake certainly made legal arrangements, but here's a video questioning use of the British military broad arrow aka pheon symbol
.

My god, why so salty? How someone would think they could review a watch without having seen it in the metal is beyond me, and so is being unnecessarily offensive in the process. Then, in terms of the legal validity of his argument—ever heard of a license? You can argue against over-usage of broad arrows on non-issued watches, sure, but please be a little more civil and better informed when doing so...

Vercingetorix · Dec 17, 2019

SpeedyPhill
The watchmake certainly made legal arrangements, but here's a video questioning use of the British military broad arrow aka pheon symbol
.

He is abhorrent about Omega using the broad arrow? Maybe he should be abhorred for not quoting his sources:

A stylised broad arrow

Heraldic broad arrow with plain barbs
A broad arrow, of which a pheon is a variant, is a stylised representation of a metal arrowhead, comprising a tang and two barbs meeting at a point. It is a symbol used traditionally in heraldry, most notably in England, and later by the British government to mark government property. It became particularly associated with the Board of Ordnance, and later the War Department and the Ministry of Defence. It was exported to other parts of the British Empire, where it was used in similar official contexts.

In heraldry, the arrowhead generally points downwards, whereas in other contexts it more usually points upwards

.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broad_arrow

Lostpuppy116 · Dec 17, 2019

US lawyer that only reunites families. Watch fan and fan of legal issues. I will assist as I can.

jsducote · Dec 17, 2019

SpeedyPhill
The watchmaker certainly made legal arrangements, but here's a video questioning use of the British military broad arrow aka pheon symbol

For the record, this is NOT me.

JwRosenthal · Dec 17, 2019

Spruce
I specialised in defence criminal litigation, criminal advocacy (jury trials and non-jury trials) and fraud/corruption cases. For the first fifteen years of practice I wore a three piece suit and the antique watch my parents gave me on qualification before Mrs S insisted that I lose the stiff collars and waistcoats and enter the 20th Century.

And I started out collecting, collecting Parker 51 & 61 pens, which I rotated, rather like I now collect and rotate wrist watches.

Not a lawyer but love your style- you can also go casual with a waistcoat like the Filson Mackinaw or an old Woolrich Grey rail stripe.
One of my fav’s with an Oxford shirt, jeans and field coat- a vintage Pendleton

queriver · Dec 17, 2019

A great thread idea but please don't bill us non-lawyers when we read it 😲

Spruce · Dec 17, 2019

queriver
A great thread idea but please don't bill us non-lawyers when we read it 😲

I've heard it said that lawyers don’t need a watch to calculate their chargeable hours 😉

jaspers · Dec 18, 2019

queriver
A great thread idea but please don't bill us non-lawyers when we read it 😲

Trust me, the thing I most happily left behind when leaving private practice was the concept of billable hours. Timing your work in six-minute blocks completely killed all creative thinking for me. It's mind-numbing, and ridden with perverse incentives. Clients don't take my call: SIX MINUTES. Sending two instead of one email: 2 TIMES SIX MINUTES. Having to listen to rambling voicemail from client: SIX MINUTES.

::facepalm1::

Screwbacks · Dec 18, 2019

There is an old interesting IP case between Davidoff and durfee, which the former won. Similarity to the font design that's all there is to in the decision. The durfee watch looks like a bubbleback.

JwRosenthal · Dec 18, 2019

jaspers
Trust me, the thing I most happily left behind when leaving private practice was the concept of billable hours. Timing your work in six-minute blocks completely killed all creative thinking for me. It's mind-numbing, and ridden with perverse incentives. Clients don't take my call: SIX MINUTES. Sending two instead of one email: 2 TIMES SIX MINUTES. Having to listen to rambling voicemail from client: SIX MINUTES.

As a lay-person ( not a law-person) I never thought about this but it makes total sense! In my
line of work, there are several processes that require total creative concentration and when your on a roll and have multiple projects going at once, you get your mojo going and having to break from that totally destroys the creative juices. My office tried to implement an accountability for time system (like a timesheet keeping) so our work could be billed against different project accounts. It was arduous and totally broke our productivity having to stop tasks to log time and switch gears as we had applied our allotted 3 hours towards that project’s funding- the utmost of bean-counter ridiculousness.
I can totally see the creative process in law (researching, preparing a brief or argument) being a absolute creative process that requires both sides of your brain working simultaneously.

When I’m asked how long does something take to get done, my answer is usually- it takes as long as it takes.

TimeODanaos · Dec 18, 2019

jaspers
- based in continental Western Europe (graduated 2012)
- practiced for 5 years, now law school professor
- otherwise interested (but by no means authoritative) in intellectual property, constitutional law

Thanks, Professor - does any of your colleagues have a view yet on whether UK personal imports from e.g. Germany are going to get 20% more expensive in one year's time? 🙁

jaspers · Dec 18, 2019

TimeODanaos
Thanks, Professor - does any of your colleagues have a view yet on whether UK personal imports from e.g. Germany are going to get 20% more expensive in one year's time? 🙁

So the way it looks now the UK will have 1 year past Brexit (probably this Friday) to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU block. Otherwise tariffs will kick in and that would majorly suck.

TimeODanaos · Dec 18, 2019

Thanks for this reply... I think... 🙁

Dan S · Dec 18, 2019

jaspers
Trust me, the thing I most happily left behind when leaving private practice was the concept of billable hours. Timing your work in six-minute blocks completely killed all creative thinking for me. It's mind-numbing, and ridden with perverse incentives. Clients don't take my call: SIX MINUTES. Sending two instead of one email: 2 TIMES SIX MINUTES. Having to listen to rambling voicemail from client: SIX MINUTES.

I'm not an attorney, but I occasionally consult as an expert witness. In my day job, the creative process is important, and it happens at all times ... when I'm hiking, lying in bed, in the shower. Often I'll come back from a jog and rush to the computer to capture ideas or writing that I composed in my head while I was out. So I'm accustomed to working that way, and obviously it extends to work I do as a consultant, but I clearly don't bill for my jogging time. Since consulting is just a side-gig for me, it's not a big deal, but if it were my bread-and-butter, I can see how it would create incentives for me to change my work process. No thinking allowed unless I'm sitting behind my desk with the timer running.