https://www.fratellowatches.com/beware-swiss-customs-targeting-baselworld-2019-attendees/

WTF

 

It's the law... Actually it's the same in the European Union. When I go to France, Germany, or somewhere else, I'm supposed to declare anything "commercial" with a value above the amount decided by the country. In Switzerland it's everything above 300$ that you are supposed to declare when entering the country.

You have to understand something. Customs office and agents have a lot more "rights" than police officers. If they decide to put you under investigation, they don't have any time frame to do it. For example, they could keep you under "customs investigations" for months if they want to. They justify it by needing to keep you in the country while they check everything they want.

Usually a custom officer will consider the watch you are wearing as your "personal" belongings and not of commercial value, but in the absolue there is no clear rule about that. So you could find and officer who decide to charge the VAT on the value of the watch you are carrying.

There's also something arbitrary about the customs. For example a friend of mine went shopping in NYC and was controlled at the airport when he came back. They charged him the VAT based on the MSRP of the clothes he had bought in New York, and not on the actual price he bought them for (everything was on sales), and since he didn't keep the bills, he couldn't prove he payed less thant 50% of the retail price. So he paid much more in taxes than the actual value of the stuff. Plus the extra fine for not having declared the goods on arrival....

A lot of people forget about that while travelling. Especially when you travel with your watches... expensive watches. It's easy money for the government.

 

‘What’s that officer? It’s unusual for people to wear 3 watches per limb?’

Personal effects are tax free.



But it appears watches are grey and not clearly defined. I would guess most non-WIS people traveling don’t do more than 1 watch. So maybe 2 is pushing it...but as a watch-guy, I do not see why, nor feel I should be discriminated against this way.

Scares me, as I have traveled with a roll before...

 

Also, wearing high $$ watches is a well known way to discreetly pass sizable sums of money between two countries...

On a lighter note:
- hodinkee has a nice review of the new Tudor => passes trough Swiss customs like a breeze
- fratello has a critical one => 4k fine!

 

Yes it the law, but will hit Baselworld another time...... and for GTGs that’s also a bad info.

 

It’s a lottery you don’t want to win

 

Next time I ‘mule’ for you I shall carefully disassemble all of the watches with a spanner and swallow each part individually, allowing 3-4 days for my visit.

Seriously though, I hope for the sake of gtgs that this doesn’t become a policy.

 

There are all kinds of goofy customs law that have no regard for common sense...

Switzerland not being part of the EU and also being a hotbed for financial management certainly makes it a risk area when you're traveling across its borders with valuables.

Another funny example is, if you drive out of Switzerland with a car that is not registered in your name, maybe simply because a friend, or even a family member, has loaned it to you, you can be taxed on it when entering the EU, i.e. simply driving out of Switzerland. It is not an urban legend... Happened to a friend of mine...

No matter what, sorry to hear what happened to Michael

 

I also feel scared traveling with multiple watches, after all some watches are investments. I see people traveling with multiple watches, and I wonder is it safe? No offence, to Fratello watches and my grief that they had to pay so much fine. You can never know rules and regulations of different countries. Better safe than sorry!

 

It's one of the reasons why I don't send watches abroad for service - it's just not worth the hassle when they get stuck in customs.

 

If you want more stories about the customs...

Someone who is collecting watches as well had a home visit from the swiss customs. They had controlled a guy in the country who had bought watches, and he had bought one from this person. When they checked their records, they saw that the watch was sold abroad originally and was never declared back into the country (looks like they have access to a register with the serial numbers for luxury watches, would be interesting to now more about that...). So they went to this guy, asking where the watch was coming from. He had bought it in a watch auction in Switzerland but didn't keep the invoice.

So, for the customs, this person was the last known seller of this watch once it had entered the country, so he was the guy who needed to pay the import taxes.... plus the fine for not having declared the goods... It costed him more than 3000$ in the end.

Bad taste for sure, but this is how you can get screwed by collecting watches as well.

So make sure you make a contract when you buy a watch from a private seller so you can at least justify its provenance if you get asked by the customs...

 

I've always thought taking more than one or two watches on an international trip was asking for trouble, and anything of real value or higher interest always stays home. It's not worth the attention of the nice men at the airport...

Be they government officials or shady types.

Which might just be the same thing really.

 

I know, right?! Scary stuff. Have traveled several times with 5(+) watches. And I am still fully in your debt for that Neil (those crummy chocolates were definitely not enough, expect more when next we meet) ... humbly grateful I still am ... and again many many many thanks. (Next time, if there is a next time, you rock it like a rock star ).

It’s just all clear as mud. Laws for importing stuff more than $300 worth, not personal effects though (as if you took the average Swiss and stripped him naked at customs the value of clothes alone, excluding gadgets, would far exceed $300).

I have imported the majority of my watches through customs, I have the scanned import receipts on file, however there is not enough details there that if I had to travel with said paperwork through customs to prove ‘this is my personal effect, already paid duty to you' that they would be able to correlate it. So, how does this work then? One just pays every time one crosses borders and hopes to get the money back in a timely fashion (if they even will give it back)? HARD PASS.

And in the case of Michael ... what should he have done? Declared everything when leaving Germany (*), then declare it upon entering Switzerland, pay VAT, make sure he travels back to Germany during normal office hours so he can try and reclaim from the Swiss during their office hours, and then go to German customs with his previous declaration (*) so that he doesn't have to reimport his stuff which is just coming back to Germany, at 19%?

Heavens forbid if one travels with multiple pairs of jeans or shoes, or for the photographers, lenses and cameras...

To make examples at Baselworld is probably the most retarded thing ever ... the more one thinks about it the more retarded it seems...definitely the proverbial shitting on the own doorstep here.

 

I have a letter from my company in the company car to prevent this kind of surprise. A colleague had an interesting experience before we get such documents

 

The Law is clearly an Ass in this case!

 

The authorities are so unreasonable.... I cant afford a GMT and need to track a lot of time zones.....honest.
The were the same with my definition of personal use that last time they pulled me over...….So disbelieving of us honest citizens...

 

The real problem is that regarding personnal belongings vs commercial goods, it's really up to the appreciation of the custom officer. So this is why I also adopt a low profile when travelling. For all kind of robbers...

 

laws are laws. A simple Carnet would have solved everything.

https://www.atacarnet.com/what-carnet

A watch journalist going to a watch fair with watches. Technically he was on a business trip not a holiday.

And by saying he won’t take watches anymore is just showing his arrogance to international border crossings.

“ I was told taking pictures is ok, but if you’re there to make money with pictures, you should declare. “

100% agree with the Customs officer. He was right as he fined the journalist for not declaring first which also involves the vat penalty also.

 

At least this time is watches, usually they make an example of some random guy that went shopping in Germany and came back with 1kg of undeclared sausages . In the end of the day the fine adds 1% to the value of one of the watches but makes for a very expensive sausage for the other guy.

 

Wow, that is very logical and technically right! brilliant analysis